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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 5:57:25 GMT
Just been listening to Heseltine on the radio ranting that many people who voted Leave only did so to kick Cameron out/stick two fingers up to mid-term govt/or didn't understand the consequences. He (and Ken Clarke, two big ol' cannons) is saying the new leader should go back to Brussels, renegotiate, and overturn this ridiculous decision!!!!! A "ridiculous decision" voted on by millions in a fair referendum. Overturning it would be totally undemocratic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 5:59:33 GMT
Just been listening to Heseltine on the radio ranting that many people who voted Leave only did so to kick Cameron out/stick two fingers up to mid-term govt/or didn't understand the consequences. He (and Ken Clarke, two big ol' cannons) are saying the new leader should go back to Brussels, renegotiate, and overturn this ridiculous decision!!!!! "Brexit live: thousands 'march for Europe' in post-referendum protest
People take to the streets of London and other centres across the UK to demonstrate against the vote to leave the EU"
www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jul/02/brexit-news-live-thousands-march-for-europe-in-post-referendum-protest
I suspect that if the referendum were held again now that voters can see the dreadful consequences of leaving the EU, the result would be totally different. I'm guessing that Remain result would be in the high seventies. Only die hard little England xenophobes and Farage's fascist zealots would vote to Leave At least the LibDems have seen sense, they will include remaining or rejoining the EU in their next election manifesto
I'm getting very tired of you hurling insults at everyone who voted to leave. And I think your estimate is a long way out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 12:08:04 GMT
"Brexit live: thousands 'march for Europe' in post-referendum protest
People take to the streets of London and other centres across the UK to demonstrate against the vote to leave the EU"
www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jul/02/brexit-news-live-thousands-march-for-europe-in-post-referendum-protest
I suspect that if the referendum were held again now that voters can see the dreadful consequences of leaving the EU, the result would be totally different. I'm guessing that Remain result would be in the high seventies. Only die hard little England xenophobes and Farage's fascist zealots would vote to Leave At least the LibDems have seen sense, they will include remaining or rejoining the EU in their next election manifesto
I'm getting very tired of you hurling insults at everyone who voted to leave. And I think your estimate is a long way out. If you don't like it, you know what you can do You can always choose like I do, to ignore my posts as I will ignore yours. You are clearly just here for an argument, like you do elsewhere
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2016 12:45:19 GMT
I'm getting very tired of you hurling insults at everyone who voted to leave. And I think your estimate is a long way out. If you don't like it, you know what you can do You can always choose like I do, to ignore my posts as I will ignore yours. You are clearly just here for an argument, like you do elsewhere
I dislike you continually being offensive, so I'm just looking for an argument. You genuinely cannot admit that those on the other side of the debate might have perfectly valid points, can you?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 9:24:52 GMT
This is absurd and two people falling out here is something I hoped I would never see.
There was a referendum. It was democratic. One side gained more votes than the other.
Now we have the disgraceful situation of mobs on the streets trying, indeed it seems hell bent on overturning that decision. And speakers addressing them saying the vote was 'advisory'.
If the vote had gone the other way do you for one moment think we would have had demonstrations by the 'leave' people? No, we would have grumbled a bit and got on with it. And I thought long and hard about my vote and perhaps was on balance 55% in the leave camp. I was not an absolutely 100% leaver. If mob rule and civil disobedience means we have another vote I will be 100% in favour of leaving and would actually campaign to do so. And that would be in defence of democracy, which is precisely the reason I voted leave. And I say that as a person who has never been a member of any political party, never would be, has never contributed to any political party nor campaigned for them
Somehow people seem to think that mob rule = democracy. It doesn't.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 10:29:19 GMT
This is absurd and two people falling out here is something I hoped I would never see. There was a referendum. It was democratic. One side gained more votes than the other. Now we have the disgraceful situation of mobs on the streets trying, indeed it seems hell bent on overturning that decision. And speakers addressing them saying the vote was 'advisory'. If the vote had gone the other way do you for one moment think we would have had demonstrations by the 'leave' people? No, we would have grumbled a bit and got on with it. And I thought long and hard about my vote and perhaps was on balance 55% in the leave camp. I was not an absolutely 100% leaver. If mob rule and civil disobedience means we have another vote I will be 100% in favour of leaving and would actually campaign to do so. And that would be in defence of democracy, which is precisely the reason I voted leave. And I say that as a person who has never been a member of any political party, never would be, has never contributed to any political party nor campaigned for them Somehow people seem to think that mob rule = democracy. It doesn't. I don't think it is "mob rule",i t is anger at our way of life and possibly the future of the Country being threatened by people casting their vote based on lies, bigotry, and divisiveness It is hardly surprising that there is a reaction from sensibly thinking people who are savvy enough to realise the implications of this referendum BTW "democracy" should be the will of the people, I think the petition for another referendum has reached over 4 million and you saw the crowds on the streets of London protesting
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 10:54:00 GMT
This is absurd and two people falling out here is something I hoped I would never see. There was a referendum. It was democratic. One side gained more votes than the other. Now we have the disgraceful situation of mobs on the streets trying, indeed it seems hell bent on overturning that decision. And speakers addressing them saying the vote was 'advisory'. If the vote had gone the other way do you for one moment think we would have had demonstrations by the 'leave' people? No, we would have grumbled a bit and got on with it. And I thought long and hard about my vote and perhaps was on balance 55% in the leave camp. I was not an absolutely 100% leaver. If mob rule and civil disobedience means we have another vote I will be 100% in favour of leaving and would actually campaign to do so. And that would be in defence of democracy, which is precisely the reason I voted leave. And I say that as a person who has never been a member of any political party, never would be, has never contributed to any political party nor campaigned for them Somehow people seem to think that mob rule = democracy. It doesn't. I don't think it is "mob rule",i t is anger at our way of life and possibly the future of the Country being threatened by people casting their vote based on lies, bigotry, and divisiveness It is hardly surprising that there is a reaction from sensibly thinking people who are savvy enough to realise the implications of this referendum BTW "democracy" should be the will of the people, I think the petition for another referendum has reached over 4 million and you saw the crowds on the streets of London protesting
Gus. We were told lies from both sides, and many if not most saw through them and made a rational decision. It just happens to be a decision you don't agree with. There are many decisions made from local councils up to parliament with which I disagree, but that my friend is life. You say there is a reaction from people who were 'savvy' enough to realise the implications of the referendum. That by implication is saying that everyone who voted leave is not savvy. I think I am reasonably savvy, as are many friends and business acquaintances who also voted leave. The strength of feeing surprised me. As for the petition, well since a lot of people have been stirring the pot I am not in the least surprised. And if there is another referendum I for one will be disgusted. And suppose that one also goes to the leavers? What then, another and another until the 'mob' get the result they want. I listen to the news, and to various experts. And I am pretty pissed off at the emotive language being used. The pound had 'crashed. No it has not. It is down and will with absolute certainty come back. If you want to see a currency that has crashed then look at Zimbabwe a few years ago, or Germany in the 20's and many others. I also think the BBC and others are not reporting the news. They show idiots in pubs who voted leave, and then some quite normal people in the street who voted remain.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 11:10:00 GMT
I don't think it is "mob rule",i t is anger at our way of life and possibly the future of the Country being threatened by people casting their vote based on lies, bigotry, and divisiveness It is hardly surprising that there is a reaction from sensibly thinking people who are savvy enough to realise the implications of this referendum BTW "democracy" should be the will of the people, I think the petition for another referendum has reached over 4 million and you saw the crowds on the streets of London protesting
Gus. We were told lies from both sides, and many if not most saw through them and made a rational decision. It just happens to be a decision you don't agree with. There are many decisions made from local councils up to parliament with which I disagree, but that my friend is life. You say there is a reaction from people who were 'savvy' enough to realise the implications of the referendum. That by implication is saying that everyone who voted leave is not savvy. I think I am reasonably savvy, as are many friends and business acquaintances who also voted leave. The strength of feeing surprised me. As for the petition, well since a lot of people have been stirring the pot I am not in the least surprised. And if there is another referendum I for one will be disgusted. And suppose that one also goes to the leavers? What then, another and another until the 'mob' get the result they want. I listen to the news, and to various experts. And I am pretty pissed off at the emotive language being used. The pound had 'crashed. No it has not. It is down and will with absolute certainty come back. If you want to see a currency that has crashed then look at Zimbabwe a few years ago, or Germany in the 20's and many others. I also think the BBC and others are not reporting the news. They show idiots in pubs who voted leave, and then some quite normal people in the street who voted remain. I don't see why people are scared of a second referendum, if they are so sure of their argument they should welcome the opportunity. If a party wins an election by a slim majority there will either be a coalition, or a quick second election (David Cameron nearly did and Harold Wilson in the 70s did) What is the difference? BTW I don't think both sides told "lies", Remain warned us about what would happen and you can see the green shoots of that already (to coin a phrase)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 13:16:24 GMT
It is a bit rich you know citing the 4 million who have clicked on a button asking for a second referendum and calling that democracy, as well as the people telling us that the 172 MP's who voted against Corbyn were as nothing compared with the 250,000 who voted for him in the leadership race.
I suppose the 17odd million who voted to leave were undemocratic and should be dismissed as racist xenophobes and ignored?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 13:49:35 GMT
It is a bit rich you know citing the 4 million who have clicked on a button asking for a second referendum and calling that democracy, as well as the people telling us that the 172 MP's who voted against Corbyn were as nothing compared with the 250,000 who voted for him in the leadership race. I suppose the 17odd million who voted to leave were undemocratic and should be dismissed as racist xenophobes and ignored? Actually, a lot of those four million appear to have been less than legitimate, anyway. 77, 000 signatures were removed fairly quickly, weren't they? A lot of them seem to have originaed outside the UK, including 39, 000 from the Vatican (which has a population of just 800).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 14:10:16 GMT
It is a bit rich you know citing the 4 million who have clicked on a button asking for a second referendum and calling that democracy, as well as the people telling us that the 172 MP's who voted against Corbyn were as nothing compared with the 250,000 who voted for him in the leadership race. I suppose the 17odd million who voted to leave were undemocratic and should be dismissed as racist xenophobes and ignored? Does Brexit affect you personally?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 14:19:40 GMT
It is a bit rich you know citing the 4 million who have clicked on a button asking for a second referendum and calling that democracy, as well as the people telling us that the 172 MP's who voted against Corbyn were as nothing compared with the 250,000 who voted for him in the leadership race. I suppose the 17odd million who voted to leave were undemocratic and should be dismissed as racist xenophobes and ignored? Does Brexit affect you personally? It affects everyone personally.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 14:46:39 GMT
It is a bit rich you know citing the 4 million who have clicked on a button asking for a second referendum and calling that democracy, as well as the people telling us that the 172 MP's who voted against Corbyn were as nothing compared with the 250,000 who voted for him in the leadership race. I suppose the 17odd million who voted to leave were undemocratic and should be dismissed as racist xenophobes and ignored? Does Brexit affect you personally? Yes Gus it does. I do a lot of business in Europe, but as with many others if the EC decided to impose tariffs I will very reluctantly find other suppliers in China, the US or other areas. I won't want to, but I will. It is a simple commercial decision. At the moment the pound Euro exchange rate makes me pause before I buy, but it will come back quite fast I think. So you could say that at the moment it is having an adverse effect on my business, because I tend to buy more than I sell.
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Post by marispiper on Jul 4, 2016 17:09:35 GMT
I do know that where there were any 'lies' these were quickly pounced on by the opposite camp. We don't live in a vacuum...we were able to hear both sides, you know, and therefore able to make our own judgements.
It irritates me beyond belief that many Remain voters stereotype Leave voters as gullible, racist and sharing a brain cell.
One thing that all Leave voters knew was that there would be a period of instability in the economy, and presumably accepted that for what they believe are other gains.
It took me a long time to decide which way to vote (Remain) so I have a lot in common with Leave but whatever the outcome, we had the right to expect decisive and planned action. Remember, that Leave (Boris et all) were only leading a campaign...NOT in government so how could they put anything into action? They still have no power.
No. The fault for this crisis and instability lies with the government (Cameron) for not having, and carrying out, Plan A or Plan B, since either outcomes were as likely as each other.
We still have one person (Hammond) saying this morning the referendum is final and will be carried out, then Clarke calling for 'an end to this madness' followed by a top law firm demanding an act of parliament or it's all off!!!
I am fuming.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2016 20:36:29 GMT
I do know that where there were any 'lies' these were quickly pounced on by the opposite camp. We don't live in a vacuum...we were able to hear both sides, you know, and therefore able to make our own judgements. It irritates me beyond belief that many Remain voters stereotype Leave voters as gullible, racist and sharing a brain cell. One thing that all Leave voters knew was that there would be a period of instability in the economy, and presumably accepted that for what they believe are other gains. It took me a long time to decide which way to vote (Remain) so I have a lot in common with Leave but whatever the outcome, we had the right to expect decisive and planned action. Remember, that Leave (Boris et all) were only leading a campaign...NOT in government so how could they put anything into action? They still have no power. No. The fault for this crisis and instability lies with the government (Cameron) for not having, and carrying out, Plan A or Plan B, since either outcomes were as likely as each other. We still have one person (Hammond) saying this morning the referendum is final and will be carried out, then Clarke calling for 'an end to this madness' followed by a top law firm demanding an act of parliament or it's all off!!! I am fuming. They are now arguing about the status and rights of EU immigrants who are living in the UK. Strangely the right are saying that they will be given an automatic right to remain whilst the May/Hammond camp seem to be suggesting that this will be negotiable. Presumably as a trade off for UK citizens who are living in the EU Don't know where they found this Andrea Leadsom who the hard right Tories are backing in the leadership ballot. Never heard of her before other than she ran John Deadwood's campaign to beat John Major. She clearly likes to portray herself as a modern day Thatcher with the blue suit etc
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