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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 15:13:52 GMT
Some opposition to the referendum has arisen from its use by dictators such as Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini who, it is argued, used the plebiscite to disguise oppressive policies as populism. Hitler's use of plebiscites is argued as the reason why, since World War II, there has been no provision in Germany for the holding of referendums at the federal level. Interesting point Arena, and I think by and large I would agree. It is fairly easy to whip up a groundswell of public opinion/indignation but in most cases cool heads should prevail. I am pretty sure that immediately after for example the Rotherham child sex exploitation case a referendum would have been in favour of castrating the perpetrators, and after a particularly gruesome multiple murder there would be a majority in favour of the restoration of capital punishment. However I think we need politicians to decide on those things, no matter how mad or bad some of those politicians are. |
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Post by ARENA on Sept 16, 2015 15:40:29 GMT
It is a bit of a folly, to believe that individuals have more knowledge on a specific subject than those we appoint.
I don't tell a blacksmith how to shoe my horse. If I did I would end up with a cripple horse.
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Post by starlilolill on Sept 16, 2015 15:44:41 GMT
Let the people decide! You can't find the vow? The truth is you have either been on another planet, you don't keep up with the news, or you are just making mischief! Perhaps you don't know how to Google! If you are going to insult me we are not going to have a conversation. I wasn't trying to insult but felt you must be the only one in the country who didn't know about the 'Vow' so you were actually taking the mickey IYSWIM. Just as an aside - The Crown Prosecution Service are, at last, looking into vote rigging re the Scottish Referendum. The postal ballots were supposed to be sealed and inspected before going off to be counted - they were not inspected as English Police were sent to collect them, wouldn't let anyone near even thought hey should have been allowed to see them being sealed! They were then taken to ENGLAND to be counted! Ruth Davison let the cat out of the bag by announcing in public what the numbers were BEFORE the referendum. I have always believed it was a dodgy, or rigged if you like, referendum. I won't be swayed from that view. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 9:31:33 GMT
It is a bit of a folly, to believe that individuals have more knowledge on a specific subject than those we appoint. I don't tell a blacksmith how to shoe my horse. If I did I would end up with a cripple horse. You have reminded me Arena. A chap retired from Rolls Royce (substitute whatever engineering company you like) was bored, so he approached the local blacksmith for a job. ‘What can you do?’ Anything, I used to work for RR. ‘OK, see that horse, well I want you to make him a set of shoes and put them on him’ Fine, not a problem. An hour or so later the blacksmith returned. The horse was in the field on his back, all four hooves in the air, and each hoof had a fabulous shoe fitted, engine turned, glinting in the sun, and perfect. ‘Great set of shoes’ said the blacksmith, but why is he lying on his back?’ No idea, he was like that when I took him out of the vice….. |
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Post by starlilolill on Sept 17, 2015 12:09:05 GMT
It is a bit of a folly, to believe that individuals have more knowledge on a specific subject than those we appoint. I don't tell a blacksmith how to shoe my horse. If I did I would end up with a cripple horse. BUT we have politicians who have no knowledge about education telling teachers how to teach. Politicians who have no knowledge about medicine telling doctors how to prescribe (and the rest!) the list goes on. Do we, as tax payers, have any say on how our money is spent/wasted? We certainly don't. There are so many things out there that we really should be questioning - as an example why should my taxes pay for a portrait of IDS? £10,000 might not be a lot in the grand scheme of things but multiply it by all the members of cabinet! I don't want my taxes going to pay for nonsense, do you? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 12:45:53 GMT
If by politicians you mean ministers (of education et al) then they are heads of large teams of civil servants that DO have knowledge. The policies which the ministers put forward are usually that of a collective cabinet, shadow or otherwise.
The captain of a ship does not necessary have to know how the engines work. All he has to do is to make sure his team do, and to instruct his team so that the engines continue to work - they have sufficient fuel and are not being over stretched.
As for portraits, there is waste everywhere. Some people would think that is a waste of public money, but so is the 'greeter' at my local hospital, and you could argue so is the fancy architecture. But the world would be a very dull grey pace without a bit of bling here and there.
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Post by norty on Sept 17, 2015 19:10:42 GMT
If by politicians you mean ministers (of education et al) then they are heads of large teams of civil servants that DO have knowledge. The policies which the ministers put forward are usually that of a collective cabinet, shadow or otherwise. Hmm, they do have knowledge but I have to disagree with whether it is relevant. In education the 'large teams' are full of teachers/ head teachers who have been out of a school of their own, or certainly the classroom for years and who are completely out of touch with teachers needs today. |
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Post by starlilolill on Sept 17, 2015 19:52:43 GMT
I won't change my mind on the 'talents' of 'ministers.
I retired as a headteacher (early I hasten to add!) thirteen years ago and I certainly wouldn't dream of saying I know what the classroom situation is these days - from what I can gather I'm glad I'm out of it.
We have had so many changes foisted on schools by succesive Secretaries of State for Education over the years to the detriment of pupils. I don't know what National Curriculum schools are on now since it is probably into double figures - that should tell you all really.
Best practice around the world was certainly investigated - Finland came out on top but because it doesn't have government interference it was rejected!
Schools were so much better before OFSTED, when HMIs were gods and knew what they were talking about.
I have two young grandaughters, one in school in England, the other starts school after Christmas in Scotland so a bit of a vested interest still!
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Post by scorp on Sept 17, 2015 21:23:12 GMT
What's this 'vow' that's being argued over above? I've never heard of it... some Labour nonsense?
As for the referendum, it's too easy to slew results by tinkering with the question(s) posed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2015 8:14:38 GMT
What's this 'vow' that's being argued over above? I've never heard of it... some Labour nonsense? As for the referendum, it's too easy to slew results by tinkering with the question(s) posed. I think it is a vow of silence on this board Scorp. |
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Post by jimshoo on Sept 18, 2015 8:31:01 GMT
I like the sweaty socks. My Dad was one.
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Post by starlilolill on Sept 18, 2015 9:01:05 GMT
What's this 'vow' that's being argued over above? I've never heard of it... some Labour nonsense? As for the referendum, it's too easy to slew results by tinkering with the question(s) posed. You probably don't know about the 'Better Together' campaign either. What's it like living in bliss? |
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Post by ARENA on Sept 18, 2015 9:49:31 GMT
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Post by starlilolill on Sept 18, 2015 10:15:33 GMT
Wrong one Arena!
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Post by ARENA on Sept 18, 2015 10:41:13 GMT
No,not the wrong one .....same message.
Better united.
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