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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2016 15:26:50 GMT
Currently we are culling badgers in some areas in an attempt to control bovine TB. The cost of bTB is estimated at some £500 million a year, but the cost is in fact far more than that. The £500 million is just the compensation cost to the farmer of the beasts that have reacted to bTB tests and gone to slaughter. You have to add to that the cost of the milk from that farm which has to be destroyed and movement restrictions imposed on that farm which effectively shut down that business for quite some time. And never mind if a particular cow is the result f 40 years of selective breeding, you get a fixed amount. The cost of the cull is also very expensive. Figures of some £4000 per badger have been quoted, so the cumulative cost is millions, particularly if you add in the cost of policing the cull as some people are determined to stop the cull. But I think there may be a solution. You take badgers off the protected species list. That would result in farmers being able to deal with the problem if they thought there was a problem. It would not result in the eradication of badgers - there are many areas in the UK where there are either very few cattle or indeed there is very little TB. Scotland for example is regarded as bTB free. After all if a farmer has problems with rats in his grain stores he deals with them and no-one objects. If he has large flocks of pigeons damaging his crops again, he deals with them and n-one bothers him. So why not badgers? For those who dispute the scientific evidence here are the facts: webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130402151656/http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/tb/documents/bovinetb-scientificexperts-110404.pdf |
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Post by goldelox on Sept 30, 2016 16:38:34 GMT
Currently we are culling badgers in some areas in an attempt to control bovine TB. The cost of bTB is estimated at some £500 million a year, but the cost is in fact far more than that. The £500 million is just the compensation cost to the farmer of the beasts that have reacted to bTB tests and gone to slaughter. You have to add to that the cost of the milk from that farm which has to be destroyed and movement restrictions imposed on that farm which effectively shut down that business for quite some time. And never mind if a particular cow is the result f 40 years of selective breeding, you get a fixed amount. The cost of the cull is also very expensive. Figures of some £4000 per badger have been quoted, so the cumulative cost is millions, particularly if you add in the cost of policing the cull as some people are determined to stop the cull. But I think there may be a solution. You take badgers off the protected species list. That would result in farmers being able to deal with the problem if they thought there was a problem. It would not result in the eradication of badgers - there are many areas in the UK where there are either very few cattle or indeed there is very little TB. Scotland for example is regarded as bTB free. After all if a farmer has problems with rats in his grain stores he deals with them and no-one objects. If he has large flocks of pigeons damaging his crops again, he deals with them and n-one bothers him. So why not badgers? For those who dispute the scientific evidence here are the facts: webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130402151656/http://archive.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/atoz/tb/documents/bovinetb-scientificexperts-110404.pdfAvery two-edged sword J the sides seem irreconcilable. Save |
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Post by marispiper on Sept 30, 2016 17:46:55 GMT
I am not even sure why badgers are protected...they are seen frequently as roadkill so they cannot be rare. Is there a cuteness factor, I wonder?
I can see farmers would want to deal with anything spreading disease amongst livestock.
Chris Packham (even though I like him) has a lot to answer for 😄
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 9:12:41 GMT
They are protected Marispiper, and the penalties for destroying them are quite severe. This is the law as it stands:
Badgers are protected and so are the setts (burrows) they live in. Under the Protection of Badgers Act 1992, in England and Wales (the law is different in Scotland) it is an offence to: Wilfully kill, injure or take a badger (or attempt to do so).
However many other species are not protected. It might surprise people to know that deer are not protected as they are considered a pest, together with rats mice crows pigeons foxes and a few others.
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Post by marispiper on Oct 1, 2016 12:25:18 GMT
How can deer be considered a pest when you can eat them 😁 ?
They don't sell badger sausages in Waitrose!
There may have been good reason to protect them in 1992, but I can't think of a reason now.
I am keen on birds/birdwatching and on Springwatch this year ALL the avocet eggs were eaten by badgers!!! Not one pair successfully raised chicks. Grrr...
I would've happily shot a few when I saw that!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 18:03:09 GMT
I agree Marispiper. It does seem to be a bit of an anomaly. Fluffy bunnies are just as cute as badgers but are not protected.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 20:12:25 GMT
I know very little about badgers, only that they eat hedgehogs and worms - and the children's brock stories
I hate to see herds of cows being destroyed because of TB infection, which farmers believe is caught from badgers. I think their control should be just left to farmers who know their land and have a right to protect their cows, milk providers for us all
Guitar players should mind their own business
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Post by marispiper on Oct 1, 2016 20:45:38 GMT
I know very little about badgers, only that they eat hedgehogs and worms - and the children's brock stories I hate to see herds of cows being destroyed because of TB infection, which farmers believe is caught from badgers. I think their control should be just left to farmers who know their land and have a right to protect their cows, milk providers for us all Guitar players should mind their own business Do you mean Brian May perchance? He's won awards for his animal rights campaigning against badger culling and foxhunting. Funny, I would've had you down as a supporter...he is one brilliant guitarist mind... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2016 9:09:01 GMT
I know very little about badgers, only that they eat hedgehogs and worms - and the children's brock stories I hate to see herds of cows being destroyed because of TB infection, which farmers believe is caught from badgers. I think their control should be just left to farmers who know their land and have a right to protect their cows, milk providers for us all Guitar players should mind their own business Do you mean Brian May perchance? He's won awards for his animal rights campaigning against badger culling and foxhunting. Funny, I would've had you down as a supporter...he is one brilliant guitarist mind... I don't support any of these so called celebs who jump on bandwagons for their own ends. BM is just another strolling guitar player, there are plenty of them about - many a lot better. He trades on the Queen charisma but Freddy was Queen, the backing musicians could have been anyone lucky enough to be there when the band was formed |
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Post by marispiper on Oct 2, 2016 13:23:02 GMT
Well,I would have to disagree with you there.
Freddie Mercury was, of course, front man extraordinaire with a terrific voice... but all Queen's musicians were first rate and were already playing together when Mercury joined them!
My brother began playing the guitar age 9 (he is excellent BTW) and still in a band; we used to spend hours in the 60s and 70s listening to, and emulating, the best... May is definitely up there. He is no.39 in the World's 100 Best Guitarists and quite self effacing I think.
I am no animal rights activist (as you may have gathered) but I really don't believe the supporters of that cause take part for their own ends. The opposite really. They are extremely passionate that's for sure (bonkers some would say) ..but you have been equally passionate on these pages, on similar issues I remember.
My own view is treat animals in your care really well (livestock or pet) but pests...well, I just don't see any reason to defend them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 9:39:49 GMT
The puzzle I have is why badgers are on the protected list. Taking them off would seem to kill many birds with one stone subject to farmers obeying the law . It would be quite satisfying removing the reason for people protesting, and therefore the enormous cost of policing those protesters.
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Post by HILD on Oct 3, 2016 12:10:50 GMT
The puzzle I have is why badgers are on the protected list. Taking them off would seem to kill many birds with one stone subject to farmers obeying the law . It would be quite satisfying removing the reason for people protesting, and therefore the enormous cost of policing those protesters. I am with you there, why do badgers warrant their own Act of Parliament, did I miss something. Country girl born and raised and can't see them as being more cute than many other animals that are treated as pests. Can anyone recall why they are so protected - was it to do with the way they were hunted; which was cruel. Surely the debate could be settled by a 100% cull in one geographical area and seeing if it works. The area would have to be one where farmers agreed not to graze cattle in certain areas to produce a protection zone where no cattle would get into the test area zone; a quarantine zone on the margins and the cull zone. Geographically the zone would be best placed next or near to an area where cattle/dairy production was relatively low e.g. near a predominately sheep/pig farming area or arable farming zone. I don't know if that is what they have done but if it is it doesn't appear to be working.
I know May wants to vaccinate the badgers and the cows and a similar testing zone could be set up to do this so that we could see which was the most effective. I suspect sadly for animal lovers that the cull would come out on top. Rounding up the badgers for vaccination would be a pretty tough challenge across the country.
In considering deer as a pest; you do need to be aware that this does not mean you can enter someone else's land to kill them, even if you do intend to eat them. They can only be killed by the general public on public land and I can only imagine the fuss if a deer got into a local park and some local hotshot took it down with a rifle, near the children's swings!!! The law is intended to allow landowners to cull their deer to maintain sustainable herds and not so that we can all go out and fetch in venison for Christmas!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 13:51:33 GMT
[/p][/quote]
I should have defined that. Deer together with many other species can be culled if they are on YOUR land, or land for which you are responsible, or land on which you have permission to shoot. It is exactly the same for example with fishing. You can't just go fishing at will in freshwater, but you can with certain restrictions in the sea.
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Post by marispiper on Oct 3, 2016 16:29:52 GMT
Hild, you make some good points - I always like to read your views...you should cease dropping in and become a regular!
Vaccinate badgers? Not much good unless you do every single one. I 'spose you could give each one a certificate... 😁
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2016 17:43:53 GMT
Hild, you make some good points - I always like to read your views...you should cease dropping in and become a regular! Vaccinate badgers? Not much good unless you do every single one. I 'spose you could give each one a certificate... 😁 Or paint a white stripe on each vaccinated one. Oh, hang on......................... |
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