Ex-pats - Spain

Sept 18, 2016 20:41:55 GMT ARENA said:

Sept 18, 2016 20:10:28 GMT @gus said:

I read on the expats forum that a couple need some €23,000 income to be allowed to reside in Spain. Presumably this would not apply to residents of the EU who have the freedom of movement
Following Brexit of course this may well apply to Brits living there who might find themselves having to leave

And many of them weren't given a vote.

A democracy at its best.

My OH is a Belgian national and has a vote in local elections but not general elections or referenda

Seems strsnge

Sept 19, 2016 18:36:03 GMT marispiper said:

I haven't had much experience of ex-pats before this trip...and let's face it, that's pretty limited. One thing was much in evidence...their expensive cars...the ones stuff they had shipped over...we chatted in the a la carte restaurant...it's just an impression that money was no issue. However, they made sure they kept within the rules to ensure they got the best of both worlds.
Their 'wealth' doesn't bother me...I was just stunned by their attitudes, particularly towards the Spanish. It was almost as if they had gone with the express intention of living in a British bubble but in a hot country.
Their choice echoes the same intention, which is often a criticism of migrants to this country.

I listened in on a conversation in a café in my own town recently. Two couples both living in Spain, both working the system. One couple had rented out their house for 6 months, having previously been back in the UK (staying with a sister) to see their GP (still registered). He had had his hip and ankle replaced and was waiting for a thyroid op. She had had a hysterectomy and varicose vein treatment. The other couple were also astonishing, they had rented their house out for a year and were privately renting here claiming housing benefit as they only had their state pensions (she claimed). He had had his cataracts, gall bladder ingrowing toe nails/bunions treated, she had had a hip and knee replacement and both had received dental treatment. One women talked about repeat prescriptions, no problem, my sister picks them up and any post comes to her, she gets the prescriptions filled and sends them out to us. Both had free prescriptions. I was astounded. I have a son with special needs he contributes £50 a week from his benefits for support access the community, go out and watch a football match etc. He has to pay for any drinks, meals, bus fares, venue tickets etc. for both himself and his carer which costs another £25/30 per week. As he lives at home with me the council refuses to allow a disregard for heating, lighting , water, food, clothing expenditure and people like this who can afford to con the system totally get on my nerves.

There is nothing wrong with the Spanish Health Service, their doctors and nurses are just as good. Difference is that it is means tested and they expect virtually everyone to have some form of medical insurance. These people must have it, but they choose to move abroad, buy houses, live a different lifestyle and come back as health tourists, whilst those of us here who know people who really need the benefits, struggle to get a fair deal at all.

A guy at work has a father who lives in France, retired on a state pension but is a part time builder for ex-pats in France, claims to be living with his elderly mum and get all his NHS treatment free including prescriptions, glasses etc. here. Even comes back for six month and annual check ups at the local hospital. Doesn't pay any taxes in France for his work which is all cash in hand and also I discovered claimed unemployment benefit for 4 years (before he reached 65) via his sister's address. Lives in a spectacular converted barn and has a gite nearby both of which he rents out and lives in a caravan when they are full. Oh I forgot sends fags and tobacco over here for another sister to sell on, they share the profit.

I imagine all of the examples above (not my son) cannot see anything they are doing as wrong, do not see how it costs this country anymore and would say they worked and deserve it when asked.

NO YOU DON'T

My daily gripe is now over.

Sept 20, 2016 12:35:20 GMT @gus said:

Don't forget that these claimants will have paid UK NI and tax contributions before they went to live in Spain. Had they lived there all the time they would have been able to buy cheap insurance policies, probably cheaper than those NI and tax costs
They are better qualified to receive benefits that the economic migrants who arrive here

I don't forget that at all. However, just because you pay NI and Tax all your life it does not mean you are entitled to receive state benefits or other perks on the down-lo. You pay your NI and Tax to benefit the entire country not just yourself. Even people who would never use a state school or an NHS hospital (other than for emergencies) still have to pay their NI and Tax, because otherwise how would their cleaner have a pension and how would they have roads to drive on. If you no longer are resident in this country you are simply not entitled to remain on the books of a GP in this country, in fact you cannot do so if you move to another town within this country. Student going to University in a different town must change their GPs, they cannot stay with their local practice. You can get temporary acceptance for emergency treatment.

You should not move to any country with the expectation of living there long term and not be able to afford the health insurance of that country. Some countries like Canada, USA, Australia I believe make it a condition of residency, especially for people over 50 or 60 that they can afford to cover their healthcare costs. Nobody would expect to move to the USA without being able to do so, just because Spain is closer it does not change the situation.

I feel quite strongly that if you take your money abroad and you will no longer pay taxes you would have continued to pay if you remained in the country. Therefore you are no longer benefitting this country despite having a potentially very large income. If you become a resident of another country, you should either have to continue paying your NI here or some sort of local taxation etc. if you wish to be able to retain your rights to benefits or be given the opportunity to opt out and get no further benefits from this country.  

Let's not mention the fact that many ex-pats return once the need for social care outweighs the warm temperatures and cheap wine. Then they realise that there is no social care in countries like Spain, you either get your family to bath you and feed you or you pay for it, if you become demented enough you might get admitted to a psychiatric hospital but there is no country in Europe that has the same system as us, as much as we might complain about it.

Many of these ex-pats have residency permits but have retained their GPs here to enable them to avoid buying health insurance in Spain. (Many haven't I appreciate that). I also presume that a couple who can afford to purchase a house in Spain are not doing this on the state pension alone and will have works pensions to top this up. They would therefore be above the limits to receive benefits in this country. So I am justified in griping that this couple returned here and managed to wangle several operations and treatments and claimed Housing Benefit and Pensioner Credit whilst here and all the time rented out their property in Spain. It smells like a fiddle and it probably is.

Sept 20, 2016 16:21:54 GMT marispiper said:

I am with you Hild and Althea. Must be particularly galling for Hild, having a son with disabilities, obliged to fund so much himself.
As you say, these people believe they have saved up their own personal pot, rather than contributed to a national system.
The instances you relate seem to reflect a very common attitude. In fact, we read an on- board magazine on the ferry, the last section of which was full of advice for ex-pats on how to work the system and stay within the law, plus cheap courier ads for getting your stuff to/from UK.
All this and their utter disdain for their 'hosts'.
A number of my own friends lived in France and Italy for years, but you're right, when a partner dies or an illness befalls, back they come! Not one has stayed abroad.

So I, who has worked here all my life in lowly paid work, health care looking after others, and paid NI and taxes who now wishes to sell up and move to Spain should forgo all benefits in the UK. Spain has a supposed agreement with the UK that pensioners health care will be provided free of charge whilst the costs are recovered from the NHS. In fact the Spanish are so strapped for cash and tired of waiting for the NHS bureaucracy to repay them, they are demanding cash on the spot for treatment. They are even taking the same attitude to the EH1C NHS holiday treatment card

Why should I forfeit my entitlement. Where your argument falls of course is if I stay here I will avail myself of all the benefits so what is the difference if my bed is in sunny Spain or the UK. I suspect there is a little jealousy around here

It is a pity that Hild is not getting sufficient benefits for her son, but that is a separate issue