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Post by marispiper on Aug 30, 2016 20:05:45 GMT
Well Aubrey, with some your heart breaks when you know their history but not often enough. I would do anything for them.
Oftentimes, you feel like a mug when the people in front of you are simply exploiting every angle...and they do. It is actually made easy because every single professional involved triggers another avenue of support until they are surrounded by 'benefits'.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 20:08:14 GMT
The "fit young men" are the advance guard, maybe even IS supporters infiltrating. Fit ready for the perilous journey here Once here of course they think that the rest of their family is entitled to join them If you are so keen on allowing these migrants here, how many have you opened your own doors to accommodate?
Why? I live in a small flat in a rich country. I pay taxes. Your argument is the same as telling anyone who talks of old people in hospitals costing the NHS too much money because councils can't afford to have home care assessments done in time to have one of those old people come to live with them; it's saying that if you think someone's wages are too low, then you ought to subsidise them yourself. We had the same unwillingness to admit immigrants - aye, and for the same reasons - in the 1930s. Yes, we admitted some; but we also told a hell of a lot to bugger off. They've benefited our country enormously; but you would not have had any inkling of that had you read the Daily Mail back then, with its praise of Mosely and Chancellor Hitler. If people are living here and they're ill, then they ought to be treated; god knows, there are plenty of refugees working in the NHS, so why not? We will have to agree to disagree, you will never convince me. The recent referendum result showed a majority for Brexit, the main reason being immigration so it looks as if you are fighting a losing battle. As the UK moves further to the right the attitude will harden £70 a week BTW is about a single persons state pension, a pension that the recipient has paid for over many many years. EWhy should the same be given to someone who has made no contribution. We have a housing crisis due to a shortage, and the NHS is struggling to cope - very good reasons for not allowing more migration and increasing the pressure I have always been a tolerant person but enough is enough
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 20:11:15 GMT
I regularly donate to food banks. It's important. There are so many people for whom it is a fine thread where they are managing - then suddenly not managing....accident/illness, loss of income, marriage break up. I used to support food banks until seeing the assorted TV programmes about how they are abused, benefit claimants relying on them so they can spend £20 a week at the pub was just one instance I cannot afford to do that
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 20:18:44 GMT
With pension you also get pension credit, to make up the total to £155 a week for a single person, plus housing and council tax benefit. The NHS is struggling because of the Tory Govt's deliberate lack of investment; housing the same (that was a policy designed to keep house prices up, to give home owners a false sense of wealth). But, yes, we won't agree: but I will leave you with the work of two refugees:  (she also designed and built the monster in the first Quatermass series, written by her husband, Nigel Kneale). And  .jpg)   Emeric Pressberger, Hungarian refugee and part of the greatest film-making partnership this country has ever known. |
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 21:18:01 GMT
I regularly donate to food banks. It's important. There are so many people for whom it is a fine thread where they are managing - then suddenly not managing....accident/illness, loss of income, marriage break up. I used to support food banks until seeing the assorted TV programmes about how they are abused, benefit claimants relying on them so they can spend £20 a week at the pub was just one instance I cannot afford to do that
Very few people do that: you can't base an entire philosophy on a few isolated cases, of people who know how to play the system: most people don't, and they're the ones who suffer as a result of programmes like that. And by clamping down you do not stop the people who know how get round it; you stop the people who really need it. To get stuff from food banks you have to get a voucher from the job centre or the council - somewhere like that - and you only get three days' worth. |
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 21:25:46 GMT
Well Aubrey, with some your heart breaks when you know their history but not often enough. I would do anything for them. Oftentimes, you feel like a mug when the people in front of you are simply exploiting every angle...and they do. It is actually made easy because every single professional involved triggers another avenue of support until they are surrounded by 'benefits'. That may happen if they get professionals: the people I see are sent to the library to claim on the computers there. A lot of them have never used a computer before, have no idea of what they're entitled to, and would not have been able to get anything without unpaid voluntary (and so inexpert and uncertain) help (and sometimes not even then, because they do not know the name of their landlord, or somesuch). I'd rather help everyone and let a few get away fraudulently: and proportion of false claims against claims not made at all, is something like 1-16 - IE, £16 billion unclaimed against less than a billion fraudulently claimed (I'm not sure of the exact figures, but it is something like that). People may not claim for various reasons; but the main one is that they did not know they were entitled. |
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 21:31:03 GMT
I don't want to live in a country ruled by scapegoating and fear and mistrust - fear and distrust of anyone unlike ourselves, of a different colour, culture, class, etc, who can them be scapegoated for Govt engineered problems like a lack of housing and the state of the NHS. In short, I don't want to live in a country ruled by the paranoid, unthinking yobbish mindset of people like the EDL and Farage, and a lot of the Tory party - the kind of people who will do celebratory posts on FB about a boat of refugees sinking. We're not that bad, are we?
I don't think most people voted to leave the EU because of anti-immigrant feelings: the people I knew who voted that way didn't anyway.
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Post by marispiper on Aug 31, 2016 7:41:57 GMT
When I mentioned 'benefits' I didn't specifically mean money. I meant benefits in the shape of professionals (who also might access more money).
When I am dealing with a situation where a man is masquerading as a child, it makes me furious. But you cannot do anything...once they are in the system, the whole thing swings into action, which is what happens with the lone child, as many in the jungle claim to be.
A child is vulnerable and I have seen them: trust me, some who purport to be children are not.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 8:48:39 GMT
An estimated 10,000 migrants have crossed the Med this week alone, from Libya to Italy
The invasion continues
Katie Hopkins caused outrage by suggesting that we should just sink the boats, perhaps that would stop them
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 8:50:14 GMT
I don't want to live in a country ruled by scapegoating and fear and mistrust - fear and distrust of anyone unlike ourselves, of a different colour, culture, class, etc, who can them be scapegoated for Govt engineered problems like a lack of housing and the state of the NHS. In short, I don't want to live in a country ruled by the paranoid, unthinking yobbish mindset of people like the EDL and Farage, and a lot of the Tory party - the kind of people who will do celebratory posts on FB about a boat of refugees sinking. We're not that bad, are we? I don't think most people voted to leave the EU because of anti-immigrant feelings: the people I knew who voted that way didn't anyway. I suggest that you look at the statistics, immigration was the main reason for voting for Brexit |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 8:53:12 GMT
I used to support food banks until seeing the assorted TV programmes about how they are abused, benefit claimants relying on them so they can spend £20 a week at the pub was just one instance I cannot afford to do that
Very few people do that: you can't base an entire philosophy on a few isolated cases, of people who know how to play the system: most people don't, and they're the ones who suffer as a result of programmes like that. And by clamping down you do not stop the people who know how get round it; you stop the people who really need it. To get stuff from food banks you have to get a voucher from the job centre or the council - somewhere like that - and you only get three days' worth. Visit the Council, Job Centre, Advice centres etc and plead poverty to some woolly leftie and be given a fistful of vouchers, claimants are well used to using the system |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 9:05:01 GMT
A thought has occurred to me. And most people trying to get here from Calais are escaping something that is a hell of a lot worse than than here, however bad it gets: and if you're going to say, Well, it's not as bad as Syria you're going from a pretty low baseline: and that goes fro pretty much all the countries people are coming from. Escaping from something a hell of a lot worse? You mean like France? Get real Aubrey, they want to come because they know life will be a doddle. I am not saying none want to work, but if for example you are in Poland, if you don't work and don't have support from friends or family, then tough, you still have to pay the rent. |
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Post by aubrey on Aug 31, 2016 9:13:21 GMT
Would you like to have to do it?
Claimants are not well used to using the system: a very few are, most have no idea, and some can't even use a computer: which is why £16 billion goes unclaimed.
We once got a bloke who'd gone to the council for food vouchers and had been sent to us, to do an online claim for an emergency loan. This was late on a Friday afternoon. The council offices would close for the weekend in half an hour, and the CAB was already closed. He needed something immediately, and an emergency loan even if granted (though by that time there would not have been enough time to do the form, as they take a long time even for someone who has done it before) would only start to be processed at the earliest on Monday. He had nothing for the weekend. The council knew this, yet he was still sent to make a useless claim.
People like that do not know how to play the system: people like me, who help them, don't know either. It is not as easy as you seem to think.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 31, 2016 9:14:41 GMT
Escaping from something a hell of a lot worse? You mean like France? Get real Aubrey, they want to come because they know life will be a doddle. I am not saying none want to work, but if for example you are in Poland, if you don't work and don't have support from friends or family, then tough, you still have to pay the rent. Have you ever tried to claim benefits, Jonjel? The people wanting to come here have often come from war zones. They're in a filthy camp with nothing. Do you imagine that none of them stay in France? |
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Post by marispiper on Aug 31, 2016 9:36:46 GMT
Would you like to have to do it? Claimants are not well used to using the system: a very few are, most have no idea, and some can't even use a computer: which is why £16 billion goes unclaimed. We once got a bloke who'd gone to the council for food vouchers and had been sent to us, to do an online claim for an emergency loan. This was late on a Friday afternoon. The council offices would close for the weekend in half an hour, and the CAB was already closed. He needed something immediately, and an emergency loan even if granted (though by that time there would not have been enough time to do the form, as they take a long time even for someone who has done it before) would only start to be processed at the earliest on Monday. He had nothing for the weekend. The council knew this, yet he was still sent to make a useless claim. People like that do not know how to play the system: people like me, who help them, don't know either. It is not as easy as you seem to think. This is an accurate picture and one I have had experience of too through involvement with homeless/disadvantaged. Hence my support of food banks. That's why, if you can get away with it, it's much easier to be a 'child' because agencies step in and you get everything. Seen that too. The biggest problem now is the sheer number. Even those willing to assist will not cope and it will be much harder to investigate background etc. |
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