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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 15:09:40 GMT
A thought has occurred to me.
According to many it would seem that GB is going to go down the plug hole faster than the speed of light once we leave the EU. We will have a completely bankrupt economy, people will be queuing round the block for simple hospital visits, the people on benefits will starve, unemployment will be about 10 million, there will be riots on the streets every day, and it will rain 24/7
If that is the case then why as is reliably estimated are about 10,000 people in Calais and countless more thousands 'in the pipeline' so desperate to come here that they will try any means, including highway robbery to get here?
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Post by althea on Aug 30, 2016 15:44:09 GMT
Estimates of doom and gloom after Brexit have been grossly exaggerated.I'm fed up of all the dire predictions.I am also worried about what will happen to the NHS when many more people,who have not contributed into it,want to use it. It is already critically overused.I know many people from this country abuse the system too. It is going to Hell in a hand cart.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 15:59:02 GMT
A thought has occurred to me. According to many it would seem that GB is going to go down the plug hole faster than the speed of light once we leave the EU. We will have a completely bankrupt economy, people will be queuing round the block for simple hospital visits, the people on benefits will starve, unemployment will be about 10 million, there will be riots on the streets every day, and it will rain 24/7 If that is the case then why as is reliably estimated are about 10,000 people in Calais and countless more thousands 'in the pipeline' so desperate to come here that they will try any means, including highway robbery to get here? No one ever said that, did they? Though they did say that hospital visits would be a hell of a lot faster and easier if we stayed, what with all that extra money, whereas a load more cuts are going to be announced in the Autumn. And most people trying to get here from Calais are escaping something that is a hell of a lot worse than than here, however bad it gets: and if you're going to say, Well, it's not as bad as Syria you're going from a pretty low baseline: and that goes fro pretty much all the countries people are coming from. You seem to forget Jonjel, that this is still a bloody rich country. It doesn't matter that we jail people for stealing a few £s worth of food, it's still very rich.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 17:10:34 GMT
A thought has occurred to me. According to many it would seem that GB is going to go down the plug hole faster than the speed of light once we leave the EU. We will have a completely bankrupt economy, people will be queuing round the block for simple hospital visits, the people on benefits will starve, unemployment will be about 10 million, there will be riots on the streets every day, and it will rain 24/7 If that is the case then why as is reliably estimated are about 10,000 people in Calais and countless more thousands 'in the pipeline' so desperate to come here that they will try any means, including highway robbery to get here? We are constantly told that these migrants are in dire straits and living in dreadful conditions Yet they are able to pay the people smugglers large sums of cash to make the journey, and we see all the young males with their up to date smart phones IMO they want to come here because of our generous benefits and health provision
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 17:31:15 GMT
If they have to they borrow the money. But refugees are not necessarily poor: many of them are middle class, and have left good jobs in order to escape: a decent income does not protect you from bombs. Remember, Freud was a refugee: Billy Wilder was, Fritz Lang, Emeric Pressburger, thousands more.
Even if you are poor, it is possible to get smart phones very cheaply in some countries (and here, if you look); and smart phones are very useful for people travelling like that.
Our benefits are not generous, Gus; most of western Europe has better benefits: the only reason anyone might think otherwise is years of Tory ministers and right wing newspapers saying so.
And why would young men (fit, healthy) be worried about getting health care?
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 17:33:15 GMT
This is a comment on Techdirt (under a piece about the burkini ban), in answer to another commenter who said, ""What drives me nuts is the idea that one nation owes it to another nations people or the world to take on refugees."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 17:38:54 GMT
If they have to they borrow the money. But refugees are not necessarily poor: many of them are middle class, and have left good jobs in order to escape: a decent income does not protect you from bombs. Remember, Freud was a refugee: Billy Wilder was, Fritz Lang, Emeric Pressburger, thousands more. Even if you are poor, it is possible to get smart phones very cheaply in some countries (and here, if you look); and smart phones are very useful for people travelling like that. Our benefits are not generous, Gus; most of western Europe has better benefits: the only reason anyone might think otherwise is years of Tory ministers and right wing newspapers saying so. And why would young men (fit, healthy) be worried about getting health care? Do you really believe that "most of western Europe has better benefits" that we do?
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 17:46:48 GMT
Go and look.
Our basic Unemployment, for over 25 year olds is just over £70 a week, for food, clothes, power, some rent and usually Council tax as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 17:57:16 GMT
If they have to they borrow the money. But refugees are not necessarily poor: many of them are middle class, and have left good jobs in order to escape: a decent income does not protect you from bombs. Remember, Freud was a refugee: Billy Wilder was, Fritz Lang, Emeric Pressburger, thousands more. Even if you are poor, it is possible to get smart phones very cheaply in some countries (and here, if you look); and smart phones are very useful for people travelling like that. Our benefits are not generous, Gus; most of western Europe has better benefits: the only reason anyone might think otherwise is years of Tory ministers and right wing newspapers saying so. And why would young men (fit, healthy) be worried about getting health care? . The "fit young men" are the advance guard, maybe even IS supporters infiltrating. Fit ready for the perilous journey here Once here of course they think that the rest of their family is entitled to join them If you are so keen on allowing these migrants here, how many have you opened your own doors to accommodate?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 17:58:19 GMT
Go and look. Our basic Unemployment, for over 25 year olds is just over £70 a week, for food, clothes, power, some rent and usually Council tax as well. £70 a week is a lot of money to someone who has nothing, rent and council tax are extra benefits - food banks - lots of misguided people handing out clothes and effects Try getting that anywhere else
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Post by marispiper on Aug 30, 2016 18:26:02 GMT
Anybody who has 'visited' several countries, looked around and thought 'nahh' is not, in my opinion entitled to refugee status.
I had lunch today with some of my retired teacher pals, and we spoke about some of the refugees we had taught. Their origins were variously, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Iraq...however, all had come here from other countries in Europe. My three were two from Norway and one from Finland and Eileen's one from Sweden. As a teacher, you feel torn between wanting the best for any child and annoyance at what is basically playing the system.
You would not believe the money that each costs, with the various agencies involved...social services, sometimes foster carers, external language support teachers, not to mention in-class support staff. A progress meeting for each of these youngsters used to require the board room. When they talk about us taking refugee children in UK, it is very demanding.
To be honest, one we had WAS traumatised and needed counselling etc. but the others, no. And often they purport to be fourteen/fifteen but you can tell they are men but they never have proof of dob. It's really annoying. In my last year we had one 'boy' from Syria and pupils said "we see him driving a car miss" ... some even said he had a child!
I am not making any of this up BTW.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 18:26:28 GMT
Well, yes - sometimes. Most people on unemployment benefit (JSA) do not get their full rent paid by housing benefit - usually not council tax either - so they have to pay at least some of their rent from the £70 (I help people claim both JSA and Housing and Council Tax Benefit; sometimes you get the whole amount of rent paid - usually women with young children, living in hostels or B&B: IE, not a proper home and usually not very comfortable - but not often).
Food banks are run by charities, and have nothing to do with the Govt. I don't know, but I'd imagine that most European countries would have something similar, at the worst soup kitchens and the like. I don't know why you call people who donate to those misguided though.
£70 a week is not a lot of money when you're living in the UK, with uk prices (like £1.60 for a packet of cornflakes, heh heh); also, if you're living in a hostel you're tied as to what you can have anyway as many of those places don't have cooking facilities and you have to eat sandwiches or takeaways.
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Post by marispiper on Aug 30, 2016 18:33:34 GMT
I regularly donate to food banks. It's important. There are so many people for whom it is a fine thread where they are managing - then suddenly not managing....accident/illness, loss of income, marriage break up.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 18:34:30 GMT
Anybody who has 'visited' several countries, looked around and thought 'nahh' is not, in my opinion entitled to refugee status. I had lunch today with some of my retired teacher pals, and we spoke about some of the refugees we had taught. Their origins were variously, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Iraq...however, all had come here from other countries in Europe. My three were two from Norway and one from Finland and Eileen's one from Sweden. As a teacher, you feel torn between wanting the best for any child and annoyance at what is basically playing the system. You would not believe the money that each costs, with the various agencies involved...social services, sometimes foster carers, external language support teachers, not to mention in-class support staff. A progress meeting for each of these youngsters used to require the board room. When they talk about us taking refugee children in UK, it is very demanding. To be honest, one we had WAS traumatised and needed counselling etc. but the others, no. And often they purport to be fourteen/fifteen but you can tell they are men but they never have proof of dob. It's really annoying. In my last year we had one 'boy' from Syria and pupils said "we see him driving a car miss" ... some even said he had a child! I am not making any of this up BTW. But would you rather, on the off-chance that they might be older than they say, send, a 14 year old back to where you think she had come from, with no support? You know some are playing the system: who but would you deny refuge to the rest who aren't, just because of that? Very few refugees are going to fetch up in the UK first off: should they have to stay in Italy or Greece? People want to come here because they speak English, because this country has a history with their country, because they have family here: there can be many reasons why they wouldn't want to settle in the country they landed in. Turks tend to go to Germany, for instance: we do have a few here, but they usually want to go to Germany. Algerians, France, etc etc. It's not - as the Daily Mail and that lot make out - as if they all want to come here, and are terribly disappointed when they end up somewhere else. Most refugees - millions of them - end up just one country over from the place they escaped from.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2016 19:57:01 GMT
If they have to they borrow the money. But refugees are not necessarily poor: many of them are middle class, and have left good jobs in order to escape: a decent income does not protect you from bombs. Remember, Freud was a refugee: Billy Wilder was, Fritz Lang, Emeric Pressburger, thousands more. Even if you are poor, it is possible to get smart phones very cheaply in some countries (and here, if you look); and smart phones are very useful for people travelling like that. Our benefits are not generous, Gus; most of western Europe has better benefits: the only reason anyone might think otherwise is years of Tory ministers and right wing newspapers saying so. And why would young men (fit, healthy) be worried about getting health care? . The "fit young men" are the advance guard, maybe even IS supporters infiltrating. Fit ready for the perilous journey here Once here of course they think that the rest of their family is entitled to join them If you are so keen on allowing these migrants here, how many have you opened your own doors to accommodate?
Why? I live in a small flat in a rich country. I pay taxes. Your argument is the same as telling anyone who talks of old people in hospitals costing the NHS too much money because councils can't afford to have home care assessments done in time to have one of those old people come to live with them; it's saying that if you think someone's wages are too low, then you ought to subsidise them yourself. We had the same unwillingness to admit immigrants - aye, and for the same reasons - in the 1930s. Yes, we admitted some; but we also told a hell of a lot to bugger off. They've benefited our country enormously; but you would not have had any inkling of that had you read the Daily Mail back then, with its praise of Mosely and Chancellor Hitler. If people are living here and they're ill, then they ought to be treated; god knows, there are plenty of refugees working in the NHS, so why not?
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