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Post by themanwhoknewnothing on Apr 13, 2020 7:57:41 GMT
. Lest they forget people here have quite long memories, as can be seen from the sale of The Sun in the Liverpool area after they published false information about the causes of Hillsborough. A week is a long time in politics. The public are mostly uninterested in yesterdays news. I bet lots of people are buying the Sun in Liverpool and viewing the internet edition. |
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Post by ARENA on Apr 13, 2020 8:02:08 GMT
More fake news ,JJ. The Sun was NEVER banned in Liverpool. It was boycotted for a few weeks by Liverpool F C fans.
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Post by aubrey on Apr 13, 2020 9:15:56 GMT
More fake news ,JJ. The Sun was NEVER banned in Liverpool. It was boycotted for a few weeks by Liverpool F C fans.
It doesn't sell well in Liverpool, and some newsagents refuse to stock it (at least according to Wiki).
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Post by ARENA on Apr 13, 2020 9:29:25 GMT
More fake news ,JJ. The Sun was NEVER banned in Liverpool. It was boycotted for a few weeks by Liverpool F C fans. It doesn't sell well in Liverpool, and some newsagents refuse to stock it (at least according to Wiki).
Doesn't sell well : credible Banned: not possible |
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Post by jonjel on Apr 13, 2020 9:41:24 GMT
More fake news ,JJ. The Sun was NEVER banned in Liverpool. It was boycotted for a few weeks by Liverpool F C fans. I did not say it was banned. I said a lot of people boycotted it, and still do. |
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Post by themanwhoknewnothing on Apr 14, 2020 9:09:29 GMT
You didn't say it was just Liverpool football fans.
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Post by jonjel on Apr 14, 2020 11:26:39 GMT
You didn't say it was just Liverpool football fans. I have no idea as to whether it is just Liverpool football fans or not, but I think a kind of group loyalty would have applied in that area. But I am being rounded on for what I think is a statement of fact, that sales of the Sun were significantly reduced in that area because of what they said on Hillsborough.
But of course William Joyce was quoted up thread as a person who broadcast the real news but no-one apart from me questioned that. So on that basis you could say he died as a result of press freedom. Or that he died in Wandsworth prison hanged as a traitor. I suppose it depends on your view of history.
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Post by aubrey on Apr 14, 2020 13:41:43 GMT
You didn't say it was just Liverpool football fans. I have no idea as to whether it is just Liverpool football fans or not, but I think a kind of group loyalty would have applied in that area. But I am being rounded on for what I think is a statement of fact, that sales of the Sun were significantly reduced in that area because of what they said on Hillsborough.
But of course William Joyce was quoted up thread as a person who broadcast the real news but no-one apart from me questioned that. So on that basis you could say he died as a result of press freedom. Or that he died in Wandsworth prison hanged as a traitor. I suppose it depends on your view of history.
I don't know enough about William Joyce, but I'd imagine he just did propaganda - some truth but mostly not - like most wartime news. British news was pretty bad as well. One difference though is that it was illegal in Germany to listen to the BBC, but it wasn't illegal to listen to Joyce here. He was Irish though, wasn't he? So, strictly, not a traitor - no, scrub that: he was American, and his defence seems to have been based on the idea that he got a British passport fraudulently and so wasn't really a British citizen. There is something rather pleasing about that, even if you don't agree with capital punishment generally. What a bloody scum-egg though.
It would be nice if no one bought the Sun, anywhere; but I don't think in Liverpool that it is just Liverpool fans who don't buy it.
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Post by jonjel on Apr 14, 2020 15:25:03 GMT
The problem with propaganda Aubs is there is always just a thread of truth there somewhere, but it is entirely the way it has been interpreted.
I don't speak Korean but I would bet quite serious money that the news programmes broadcast there never mention the abject poverty of most of the population and show happy smiling people singing patriotic songs. No doubt they do sing those songs, but also no doubt they do so because they have been told to do so.
An example of propaganda and fake news was that during the 6 day war when every state surrounding Israel was hell bent on destroying them all the broadcasts from Egypt Syria and Lebanon were full of how well they were doing and so on. In contrast Israel , who had fired the first shots because they knew damned well that their enemies were getting stronger by the day said absolutely nothing, until they had captured the Golan Heights, pushed East as far as the Jordan and South as far as the Suez canal and their enemies had suffered enormous losses and had lost the vast majority of their tanks and heavy weapons. They did that because they knew that had they published the real news the West would have intervened preventing them from accomplishing what they had set out to do.
The one thing that gets up my nose during the current crisis is the constant sniping at the government simply because they are the government and because the so called journalists think they are being clever. Just look at some of the banal questions put at the daily press conferences. And then we have others saying that Johnson was never ill, it was just a publicity stunt. And the real reason for the lockdown is so that the filthy rich can get richer, and the poor can become poorer. If they can do damage of any kind, they seem hell bent on doing so.
No one should be complacent but a friend is looking after her mother who is 90. A week or so back the old girl would not even open the door to her because that creep Piers Morgan had frightened her so much during his morning show that she was terrified of anyone coming within 100 yards of her. That is not journalism, it is nothing short of deliberate fearmongering. |
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Post by aubrey on Apr 14, 2020 16:32:10 GMT
The one thing that gets up my nose during the current crisis is the constant sniping at the government simply because they are the government and because the so called journalists think they are being clever. Just look at some of the banal questions put at the daily press conferences. And then we have others saying that Johnson was never ill, it was just a publicity stunt. And the real reason for the lockdown is so that the filthy rich can get richer, and the poor can become poorer. If they can do damage of any kind, they seem hell bent on doing so.
No one should be complacent but a friend is looking after her mother who is 90. A week or so back the old girl would not even open the door to her because that creep Piers Morgan had frightened her so much during his morning show that she was terrified of anyone coming within 100 yards of her. That is not journalism, it is nothing short of deliberate fearmongering.
There is a certain amount of that, but the Government have also made a lot of mistakes and then not acknowledged them. I'm not saying anyone else would have done better ("Better than Corbyn" is the usual comeback), but we're not down that road; and if we want to go all counterfactual, then the NHS would have been in a much better position to counter Covid-19 had Miliband won in 2015, or if the Government in 2016 had taken any notice of the results of the Operation Cygnus exercise (which said we were not prepared for a similar outbreak to the one we have now and not just - apparently - classified it.
The press conferences they are giving now seem to be more or less useless, with a lot of platitudes and elaborate non-answering exercises.
I know it's difficult, but sometimes it really looks like all the grown-ups have gone away.
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Post by aubrey on Apr 14, 2020 16:50:03 GMT
Actually, the idea that the Grown-ups have gone away is right, and it's getting more right.
It seems to to me that the Government come into power like a load of happy puppies wanting to do stuff, and then the Civil Servants tell them what is possible and what isn't. Thatcher used to complain about this though I'm not sure that she did anything about it. Then Blair's lot did the same, and they might have started to do something, and since 2010 the Tories have carried on with that process, introducing Civil Servants who tell them what they want to hear. That does not make for good government. A politician can't just say something is and have it so; it's not realistic. You need a strong Civil Service. Now it seems like we're in the hands of a bunch of people who quite like the idea of being a politician but don't know how to do the actual work - rather than the fun stuff - and don't really want to anyway. They're like a bunch of kids playing at it.
Mind you, I suppose my being older than most of them doesn't help much either.
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Post by aubrey on Apr 14, 2020 16:56:25 GMT
That footage of Johnson at an early cabinet meeting leading a chant of "50 new hospitals, 50,000 new Nurses" (or whatever it was - pretty academic really) when both figures had been comprehensively debunked months before was pretty chilling: make your own reality by believing in it hard enough.
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