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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 9:04:24 GMT
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Post by clioseward on Aug 19, 2016 10:02:49 GMT
I always thought it was the wife he had to notify!
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Post by hild on Aug 22, 2016 12:25:23 GMT
Well we don't know what they know he did or was involved in and often people have no convictions but are known to be dangerous. I have worked to support some people like this and without the legal restrictions that were put in place believe me they would have hurt people. Sound like they have basically banned him from accessing the internet unless he is prepared to show the police what he has been accessing, this is not that unusual when people have previously accessed illegal material etc. To be involved in sado-masochism is not a crime, to involve others who don't wish to be is, to watch others being involved in activities they did not wish to be involved in is also illegal, to coerce a person is a crime, to persuade a minor is a crime as is watching/knowing someone else coerced them. It is complicated only in the language but is generally common sense. I am presuming the 24 hr notification is so that the police can check the person he is involved with wants to take part in the activity and has the capacity to agree to it. Capacity to agree being a big definer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 13:52:11 GMT
Well we don't know what they know he did or was involved in and often people have no convictions but are known to be dangerous. I have worked to support some people like this and without the legal restrictions that were put in place believe me they would have hurt people. Sound like they have basically banned him from accessing the internet unless he is prepared to show the police what he has been accessing, this is not that unusual when people have previously accessed illegal material etc. To be involved in sado-masochism is not a crime, to involve others who don't wish to be is, to watch others being involved in activities they did not wish to be involved in is also illegal, to coerce a person is a crime, to persuade a minor is a crime as is watching/knowing someone else coerced them. It is complicated only in the language but is generally common sense. I am presuming the 24 hr notification is so that the police can check the person he is involved with wants to take part in the activity and has the capacity to agree to it. Capacity to agree being a big definer. I'm intrigued by the lack of spontaneity, who amongst us knows what they want to do this time tomorrow. Equally does he have to notify someone if he changes his ming
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Post by aubrey on Aug 22, 2016 19:09:02 GMT
He's into BDSM.
The police and courts have no concept of consent when it comes to BDSM - remember Operation Spanner.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 20:56:01 GMT
He's into BDSM. The police and courts have no concept of consent when it comes to BDSM - remember Operation Spanner. Lots are involved in BDSM including politicians Do they have to give notice to the police?
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Post by HILD on Aug 23, 2016 12:03:56 GMT
Well we don't know what they know he did or was involved in and often people have no convictions but are known to be dangerous. I have worked to support some people like this and without the legal restrictions that were put in place believe me they would have hurt people. Sound like they have basically banned him from accessing the internet unless he is prepared to show the police what he has been accessing, this is not that unusual when people have previously accessed illegal material etc. To be involved in sado-masochism is not a crime, to involve others who don't wish to be is, to watch others being involved in activities they did not wish to be involved in is also illegal, to coerce a person is a crime, to persuade a minor is a crime as is watching/knowing someone else coerced them. It is complicated only in the language but is generally common sense. I am presuming the 24 hr notification is so that the police can check the person he is involved with wants to take part in the activity and has the capacity to agree to it. Capacity to agree being a big definer. I'm intrigued by the lack of spontaneity, who amongst us knows what they want to do this time tomorrow. Equally does he have to notify someone if he changes his ming I can only presume (we have no real facts here) that he has been involved in previous incidents where people did not give permission, were coerced or held against their will, were physically hurt and hadn't agreed to that, were minors or some other behaviour that would be deemed criminal. The article does not say he was imprisoned or found guilty of offences but he is on the Sex Offenders Register and it may be that he agreed to this to avoid a criminal sentence, the authorities may also have a view about his own capacity to consent. On that basis the judgement is not about him being stopped from continuing his sexual inclination but about protecting other people and perhaps himself who may not understand or have the capacity to agree to what he intends to do. As I said I have been involved in this kind of case involving vulnerable adults and these decisions aren't taken lightly because they do restrict the liberty of a person/s and put limitations on what is otherwise a legal activity.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 23, 2016 17:26:06 GMT
That was the Spanner case: everyone involved consented to the various (BDSM) acts but were not deemed to have the capacity to consent. They were all adult men. The decision was fuelled purely by revulsion, nothing to do with the safety or competence of the men concerned. Yes, it was extreme BDSM, made to look more so by the reporting and some of the evidence); but none of the men were injured, or permanently scarred (except, of course, by their prison sentences and criminal records).
In BDSM there is a thing called consensual non-consent (Christian Gray ignored this aspect, which might be why people have such a skewed view of it).
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Post by hild on Aug 24, 2016 12:10:17 GMT
That was the Spanner case: everyone involved consented to the various (BDSM) acts but were not deemed to have the capacity to consent. They were all adult men. The decision was fuelled purely by revulsion, nothing to do with the safety or competence of the men concerned. Yes, it was extreme BDSM, made to look more so by the reporting and some of the evidence); but none of the men were injured, or permanently scarred (except, of course, by their prison sentences and criminal records). In BDSM there is a thing called consensual non-consent (Christian Gray ignored this aspect, which might be why people have such a skewed view of it). I am not quoting any particular case but you do point out that some of the people in that particular case were not deemed to have the capacity to consent. You mention consensual non-consent and I understand it in relation to BDSM, but groups cannot change or alter the law to suit themselves. In law capacity is crucial. To remove this protection would mean that vulnerable people were just fair game to any predatory person or decisions about ourselves made without or consent; we would have no redress (and many of us will be vulnerable in our lifetimes). Adults may not always have the capacity to consent; this may be temporary, fluctuating and not at all. It may be that they do not understand or that they have not been given enough information to enable them understand what is expected of them. It could also be that they haven't been given enough time to weigh up the facts and process them. The law does allow us to make unwise decisions, but this is based on the fact that we are able to weigh up the choices, predict the potential outcomes and make a capacitated decision to do something despite the risks and that we are aware of the consequences of our actions. All of these things are necessary to determine capacity and most of the time we take it for granted, but once under the scrutiny of the law capacity is a big deal. It must be and has to remain so.
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Post by aubrey on Aug 24, 2016 17:43:29 GMT
The capacity in the Spanner case had nothing to do with the mental capability of the men involved, but unfamiliarity with and revulsion for the things they did to each other: the only harm came from the prosecution and subsequent sentences.
"Consensual non-consent" in BDSM uses agreements, and safe words.
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