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Post by arfurmo on Oct 16, 2015 17:07:58 GMT
So the Government is allowing a new Grammer school to be built
An entirely backward step in my humble opinion
Although it is Self-evident that most posters on this board are alumni of the grotesque Sec Mod system and hence vehemently support Grammer Schools for their Grandchildren, they will excuse me, in their somnolent lazy-arsed fashion, for advancing this argument against Grammers
It is undoubtedly socially divisive to segregate children at the age of 11 based upon one test (or even more than one I s'pose)
It is within the Comprehensive system (despite its manifold failings) where the answer lies to a balanced system of education where children are continuously selected and promoted or demoted dependant upon their ability
Children at all stages of their development should have the opportunity to advance (or indeed retreat)as their unfolding ability (or lack of ability) evidences itself
Resources should be channeled into the Comprehensive System to allow pupils to develop their full potential, not squandered on frivolities such as 'new' Grammer school
Of course Grammer Schools do perform well in comparison to Comprehensive Schools, but the die is loaded innit?
Do Grammer Schools in fact do so much better than VIth Form Comps?
That is the question ( well at least is a question)
The Grammer/Sec mod system was literally a waste of human resources as well as being starkly socially divisive
What a pity that Great Man who sincerely believes in equality of opportunity and did his utmost to transform the flawed Comp system, Mr Gove , has moved to other pastures
He would not have tolerated this atavistic move by the new Ed Sec that panders to the prejudices of traditional Tories and UKIP
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Post by ARENA on Oct 16, 2015 18:34:24 GMT
Are they like grammar schools?
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Post by scorp on Oct 17, 2015 7:23:44 GMT
It certainly was a divisive system... I can still remember the piercing sobbing (not easy to do, but she did it) of a rather sweet little girl, who, it was announced (!) had failed 11+. It was all rather cruel. Still, all forgotten when I rolled up at my Grammar school (got my first choice!) in new blazer, etc. Heigh-ho... forty-six years ago, it and our Girls School were subsumed by a large Comprehensive, which following several changes of identity settled down to being called Fortismere, and pushing up house prices for miles around. The school I knew is now the 6th Form... A couple of weekends ago we were still able to muster around a hundred ex-pupils of the old Grammar and Girls High for lunch, which impressed me.
Those of us impressed by the "Englishness" of Lady Dedlock, as played by Gillian Anderson in the BBC's 'Bleak House'were pleased top discover that she had attended Fortismere for a time in her youth.
As for the Secondary Modern I escaped - they found a cannabis farm there in 2011...
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Post by ARENA on Oct 17, 2015 7:37:17 GMT
My ex-grammar school now has girls!
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Post by jimshoo on Oct 17, 2015 8:30:14 GMT
I went to a comp.
I wonder what happened to Rosie McBride, she was my school girlfriend.
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Post by scorp on Oct 17, 2015 13:14:09 GMT
The Girls arrived several years after I left. Probably just as well... I don't think I would have found it comfortable to suddenly swap a monastic (school hours) life for the adolescent embarrassments of encountering young ladies all over the place. It was a storm my young brother weathered, though...
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Post by ARENA on Oct 17, 2015 13:25:15 GMT
We used to make a quick dash,after school to the gates of the girl's school down the road. They appeared to get out a few minutes after us, as there were quite a number still there.
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Post by scorp on Oct 17, 2015 18:01:08 GMT
We had discovered factory girls... also the posher tottie from the Henrietta Barnett School in Hampstead Garden Suburb...
and I'm happy to remember my first real girlfriend was one of their number. Plus we are still good mates today!
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Post by chusty64 on Oct 17, 2015 20:14:57 GMT
I was the only one in my year to pass the 11+. I can still remember the head, Mr Nutting, taking assembly, in which he only spoke to the 'fails'. telling them not passing was nothing to worry about. They could do just as well at secondary school.
All well and good, and very true. But I felt quite upset that I was completely overlooked. Not even worth a private word from him.
I was one of the youngest in my year, and only 10 when I sat the 11+.
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Prue
Silver Surfer
Posts: 157
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Post by Prue on Oct 20, 2015 7:13:06 GMT
I didn't go to a grammar or secondary mod. I sat the 11+ and passed it, but then we moved back to Oz and I did another 6 months of primary school - the school year starts in January here - and then went to high school. The % who passed the 11+ was low, as other posters above have said. I was at a small village/army camp school; I think there were 10 or 12 of us that sat it that year. Two passed and one was "borderline". I never found out, but I always hoped that borderline person got my place at Andover Grammar. There's no grammar/secondary mod system here, but high schools (at that time; no idea what they do now) had a sort of internal division from 3rd form on. If you were a smartypants you'd move from 2nd form into 3A and do the usual English, maths, science, history, geography, languages and so on: the other stream was 3CG (the CG standing for "Commercial and general"). CG people did different subjects, one of which was typing, so I missed out on that most useful skill. Still, being BrainBox has got me where I am today, some 50 years later: in a a low-level administrative role in a State Government department on just over $60,000 a year - I think that would be about 20,000 stg.  |
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Post by ARENA on Oct 20, 2015 8:06:39 GMT
Prue darls,
You've got your voice back! How lovely to hear your sultry tones. Keep us posted.......
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Post by scorp on Oct 20, 2015 8:28:53 GMT
There were A, B and C streams at the Centre of Learning I graced with my presence - until an early form of Political Correctness seemed to strike, in my 5th year. The rather transparent ruse of re-lettering the streams was supposed to remove any illusion of superiority on alphabetic grounds - we were 5T, 5S and 5B (Tollington School for Boys). I don't think anyone was taken in by this cunning plan, and as far as I know it was dropped after a year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 11:03:24 GMT
I have mixed feelings on this one. During your life you will be selected, whether for a job, or promotion and in many other things. Does it matter so much at what age that occurs?
I went to a good grammar school and we were brainwashed into thinking we were somehow superior to the kids at the secondary modern. Some of us might have been academically, but only academically. And in our school we were streamed, and so are the children in modern comprehensives.
What I hate is decisions made for some political ethos, and our children used as experiments in education. Why not test and to some extent segregate children by ability? And if we do, does it matter at what age we do it? After all we do it according to age assuming development will be approximately equal, but it is not. A bright 10 year old can be way ahead of a normal 12 year old.
And we even had and perhaps still have the absurd situation where there would be no sports day as the losers would somehow feel inferior. Utter madness.
I went back to my old school for a reunion as was amazed. It is, as with many now fee paying, and also not segregated, they take girls and boys. Some of the buildings are relatively unchanged and still have a familiar smell. I was walking round with an old school mate and he turned to me and said 'JJ, to think we got all this for free and a few of us wasted it!'
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