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Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 8:43:53 GMT
Post by marispiper on Apr 23, 2024 8:43:53 GMT
Well, the ping-pong seems to be over. Do you think a plane will ever take off? Personally, I doubt it...
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Rwanda
Apr 23, 2024 8:50:03 GMT
Post by ARENA on Apr 23, 2024 8:50:03 GMT
Well, the ping-pong seems to be over. Do you think a plane will ever take off? Personally, I doubt it... It's all a Tory trick to convince the ignorant that they are doing something positive , apart from throwing money at Rwanda.
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Rwanda
Apr 24, 2024 16:02:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by hild1066 on Apr 24, 2024 16:02:00 GMT
How will it stop people?
1. We can't deport a person to a country that would be unsafe for them to go to.
2. We have said we won't send unaccompanied women and children to Rwanda, because it wouldn't be safe for them.
3. In order to deport someone back to their natural country, that country has to agree to accept them.
4. The police service have said they won't be involved in forcibly restraining people to get them on to flights and they will not physically restrain them on a flight.
5. The Civil Aviation Authority have said rules regarding pilots are the same as ships captains and they should not involve themselves in acts against Human Rights legislation. The UN has gone further and said airlines could be prosecuted.
6 Rwanda has said it won't allow its national airline to transport people for reputational reasons.
7. The military air services of the UK need permission to land in alien sovereign nations and Rwanda is unlikely to give permission. Neighbouring countries would likely refuse.
8. Rwanda is currently accused of supporting genocidal militias in a neighbouring country.
So no, unless Rees-Mogg has a pilots licence and Rishi is personally buying a plane, I can't see it happening.
We could have been spending this money on catching the smugglers and making deals with the govts of Morocco and Libya etc to stop the trade their. Someone is making these boats and transporting them to France. It is currently illegal to buy any boat like this in France without a licence. So they are being driven in from some factory somewhere.
Canada is a country that needs people with various qualifications so it has set up technical colleges in a number of African countries so that people can train for the jobs they need. That's the kind of infrastructure that's needed. Plus persuading companies like Honda or BMW to open factories in Africa. Real reasons to stay in Botswana or Nigeria are what these people need. Otherwise no, they'll keep coming.
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Rwanda
Apr 24, 2024 17:09:59 GMT
Post by rikiiboy on Apr 24, 2024 17:09:59 GMT
We need a monitored physical floating barrier along our international territorial sea border line that cannot be moved by tiny dinghies that aren't heavy enough to break in but can be lowered by custom's controllers at specific shipping lanes?
[Unless we act decisively to stop the boats, the cost to the taxpayer and the damage to society will continue to grow. The asylum system currently costs £3.6 billion a year and £6 million a day in hotel accommodation, but that is not the true cost of doing nothing.]
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Rwanda
Apr 24, 2024 18:28:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by hild1066 on Apr 24, 2024 18:28:06 GMT
Rikki, it's not actually illegal to sail a boat to the UK from anywhere in the world. There are hundreds of boats and ships sailing here daily, never mind ferries. It only becomes illegal if you don't report to customs or harbour masters.
How could we possibly build a floating wall around the UK when we can't even build a holding facility for asylum seekers whilst they are processed. Good grief we can't even build a train line from London to Birmingham.
We let 750,000 people fly in on work visas last year. The number coming by boat is miniscule compared to that. And don't imagine that the 750,000 who came over were all much needed doctors or dentists. Mostly they work in Social Care, banking, law, hospitality etc.
We stop this flow by stopping and holding up the travel routes across Africa and finding the gangs and arresting them. We stop the flow by allowing consulates abroad to do what they used to do and investigate asylum claims in or close to the country the person comes from. We used to have experts working in these places who could validate people's claim. This govt stopped that. We start finding the people who are here illegally and I don't mean the people on the boats, we know who they are. I mean the thousands who came on tourist visas, as students, on temporary work visas, as wives or husbands where no marriage took place or where the women were in polygamous marriages. We do virtually zero about this. How is an illegal immigrant who came from Thailand on a tourist visa able to come here and open three nail salons and get mortgages as a private landlord. I dont know but we should and we shouldn't allow it. Let's start here first and put a lot more into policing it.
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Rwanda
Apr 24, 2024 19:00:52 GMT
Post by rikiiboy on Apr 24, 2024 19:00:52 GMT
Rikki, it's not actually illegal to sail a boat to the UK from anywhere in the world. There are hundreds of boats and ships sailing here daily, never mind ferries. It only becomes illegal if you don't report to customs or harbour masters. How could we possibly build a floating wall around the UK when we can't even build a holding facility for asylum seekers whilst they are processed. Good grief we can't even build a train line from London to Birmingham. We let 750,000 people fly in on work visas last year. The number coming by boat is miniscule compared to that. And don't imagine that the 750,000 who came over were all much needed doctors or dentists. Mostly they work in Social Care, banking, law, hospitality etc. We stop this flow by stopping and holding up the travel routes across Africa and finding the gangs and arresting them. We stop the flow by allowing consulates abroad to do what they used to do and investigate asylum claims in or close to the country the person comes from. We used to have experts working in these places who could validate people's claim. This govt stopped that. We start finding the people who are here illegally and I don't mean the people on the boats, we know who they are. I mean the thousands who came on tourist visas, as students, on temporary work visas, as wives or husbands where no marriage took place or where the women were in polygamous marriages. We do virtually zero about this. How is an illegal immigrant who came from Thailand on a tourist visa able to come here and open three nail salons and get mortgages as a private landlord. I dont know but we should and we shouldn't allow it. Let's start here first and put a lot more into policing it. National I D's and enforcement would be a good start, I have always thought that there are millions more in our country than the population count suggests, why are we homing anyone who is here illegally let alone supplying homes and sustenance to them when millions of indigenous people here can't even get a home? BTW. Lots of countries have physical barriers, look at the great wall of china. www.google.com/search?q=list+of+countries+using+barriers+to+stop+illegal+migration&oq=list+of+countries+using+barriers+to+stop+illegal+migration+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTM4MDMyajBqN6gCD7ACAQ&client=tablet-android-incar&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8&chrome_dse_attribution=1
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Rwanda
Apr 24, 2024 20:20:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by hild1066 on Apr 24, 2024 20:20:55 GMT
People who are here illegally are not in social housing, they hardly dare go to the NHS because they might get caught. They're in the black economy working for cash or being supported by their families here or families abroad. Some of them are well off, they just never went back when their visas ran out. You can rent a property using a foreign bank account, most foreign students do that. However if you're applying for a mortgage you should have to prove your status. Rich foreigners can buy property but obtaining a mortgage should require proof if eligibility.
All employers have to check eligibility but not all employers are bothered. Landlords are supposed to check eligibility too and most do.
We need a force moving up and down the country checking all the likely places, and the unlikely ones.
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Rwanda
Apr 25, 2024 5:05:18 GMT
Post by rikiiboy on Apr 25, 2024 5:05:18 GMT
People who are here illegally are not in social housing, they hardly dare go to the NHS because they might get caught. They're in the black economy working for cash or being supported by their families here or families abroad. Some of them are well off, they just never went back when their visas ran out. You can rent a property using a foreign bank account, most foreign students do that. However if you're applying for a mortgage you should have to prove your status. Rich foreigners can buy property but obtaining a mortgage should require proof if eligibility. All employers have to check eligibility but not all employers are bothered. Landlords are supposed to check eligibility too and most do. We need a force moving up and down the country checking all the likely places, and the unlikely ones. I have no idea what social housing in your area is like, here it's virtually impossible . [See also: What happens to housing development plans when a council goes 'bankrupt'? According to the council, in some areas of Birmingham, the average applicant will wait over 20 years to be allocated a council home.5 Feb 2024]
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Rwanda
Apr 25, 2024 8:25:21 GMT
Post by marispiper on Apr 25, 2024 8:25:21 GMT
I too think the 'small boats' issue is the emotive, but insignificant aspect of immigration. Hildie has highlighted a couple of issues wherein the major problem lies (I won't make this a very long post by repeating your points Hildie) but politically, Rwanda has traction and is the only aspect of the myriad (and far worse) issues that runaway immigration is causing, either by over-issuing visas and not checking expired ones. Gov has no intention of looking or spending on this. Business wants it but structures can't support it. Spending on high profile daft Rwanda is pointless but a useful distraction from the real social problem. My perspective is that the 'nice' country that people want to come to is becoming not very nice at all but then, we don't know what life is like in places these people are desperate to leave. It's a worldwide problem.
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