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Post by ARENA on Oct 29, 2021 12:50:43 GMT
Who needs to? Facts only...
Lets start with those proposing that women who were cited as witches should be pardoned...
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Post by ARENA on Oct 29, 2021 12:56:01 GMT
Those who tell us not to call people Indians, instead of Indigenous Americans.
The American Indian Movement (AIM) is a Native American grassroots movement founded in July 1968 in Minneapolis, Minnesota
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Post by althea on Oct 29, 2021 13:38:06 GMT
We would never move forward, if we spent all our time trying to change the past.
We should be looking forwards, not looking over our shoulders.
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Post by goldelox on Oct 30, 2021 6:13:23 GMT
How can we have freedom of speech whilst stopping people from using certain words?
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Post by hilda on Nov 22, 2021 13:33:44 GMT
I think it's really quite straightforward. We said things in the past, very often not considering the person they described and now those people want a say in what they are called. It's not about changing the past but about allowing them to change things going forward and just being polite enough to try our best. I'm sure we don't get it right all the time because some descriptors are entrenched in our childhoods and adult lives.
I agree it can get confusing. We are told to stop saying Eskimo and to say Inuit, but then the actual Eskimos complained and said they're not Inuit and the Inuits agreed. So on the very rare occasion when I may have to use those descriptors, I would A: try to find out who I was talking about, B: if I can't I'd use Eskimo/Inuit.
It's strange though because we do adapt - well most of us - to changes that we can actually see are detrimental. Nowadays people with Down's Syndrome are called people with Down's Syndrome, they are not called people suffering from Down's Syndrome, just people with it. However, I would hazard a guess that we all used the term Mongol when we were much younger. This was only really changed when people from Mongolia complained and said they didn't all have Down's Syndrome so could we stop using it. It soon became clear that it had also had detrimental connotations for people with Down's Syndrome and that it was in a way a racist thing to say. So we just stopped. I mean within about a decade nobody was using that term anymore because we all got it.
I feel it is nothing other than trying to be polite and not put your foot in it too often. But that even if you do, if you do it with goodwill and grace, they might correct you but they won't dislike you for it.
I don't think it stops freedom of speech it just changes the word you use, not what you want to say.
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Post by ARENA on Nov 22, 2021 15:23:56 GMT
I think it's really quite straightforward. We said things in the past, very often not considering the person they described and now those people want a say in what they are called. It's not about changing the past but about allowing them to change things going forward and just being polite enough to try our best. I'm sure we don't get it right all the time because some descriptors are entrenched in our childhoods and adult lives. I agree it can get confusing. We are told to stop saying Eskimo and to say Inuit, but then the actual Eskimos complained and said they're not Inuit and the Inuits agreed. So on the very rare occasion when I may have to use those descriptors, I would A: try to find out who I was talking about, B: if I can't I'd use Eskimo/Inuit. It's strange though because we do adapt - well most of us - to changes that we can actually see are detrimental. Nowadays people with Down's Syndrome are called people with Down's Syndrome, they are not called people suffering from Down's Syndrome, just people with it. However, I would hazard a guess that we all used the term Mongol when we were much younger. This was only really changed when people from Mongolia complained and said they didn't all have Down's Syndrome so could we stop using it. It soon became clear that it had also had detrimental connotations for people with Down's Syndrome and that it was in a way a racist thing to say. So we just stopped. I mean within about a decade nobody was using that term anymore because we all got it. I feel it is nothing other than trying to be polite and not put your foot in it too often. But that even if you do, if you do it with goodwill and grace, they might correct you but they won't dislike you for it. I don't think it stops freedom of speech it just changes the word you use, not what you want to say. Wow , in at the deep end Hilda , with some strong views. It is also applicable to American Indian , who refer to themselves as American Indians, people of Iran who prefer to be called Persians and so on. I have been a supporter of trisomy 21 children, since 1950's when my Father worked at Botton Village (home for Mongoloid children), near Aberdeen . English physician John Langdon Down first described Down syndrome in 1862, recognizing it as a distinct type of mental disability, and again in a more widely published report in 1866. Édouard Séguin described it as separate from cretinism in 1844. By the 20th century, Down syndrome had become the most recognizable form of mental disability. I still prefer the less harsh comparison to Mongol features. |
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Post by hilda on Dec 7, 2021 21:47:51 GMT
But they didn't, they chose Down's Syndrome and that may change again at some point in the future as it is a spectrum disorder and not all people have the same health concerns or even the same learning disabilities.
Cretin, lunatic and idiot were legal definitions and still in use until recently. They are not used nowadays as we refer to people as learning disabled or even differently abled.
I think many native Americans prefer the term first Americans and I think it's up to them to decide.
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Post by rwthless on Jan 4, 2022 0:38:19 GMT
But they didn't, they chose Down's Syndrome and that may change again at some point in the future as it is a spectrum disorder and not all people have the same health concerns or even the same learning disabilities. Cretin, lunatic and idiot were legal definitions and still in use until recently. They are not used nowadays as we refer to people as learning disabled or even differently abled. I think many native Americans prefer the term first Americans and I think it's up to them to decide. Without bragging, I might be regarded as of above average intelligence, but without treatment for Hypothyroidism I might be regarded as a Cretin - if I was still alive of course. In the course of a very dangerous viral pandemic, I was recently told by someone who should have known better, that when I had laryngitis before the beginning of Covid, I had 'given her my germs'. In fact if she had caught anything from me it would have been a miracle because I had not been within 3 metres of her. For me, mention of 'germs' probably means the speaker hasn't a clue. Even if they have an engineering degree if they do not comprehend the science but believe the politicians who are paid to lie, they don't get my respect. I am naturally uncomfortable with labels of any kind unless those labels are accurate. I have long thought education must cater to people's strengths while teaching what they need to know. Skewing a whole system to the strengths of a minority is unfair and wasteful. A relative whose career has been held back by his inability to waste time on gossip has been debating with himself whether a diagnosis of Autism would help or harm his working life. A Colleague who wastes about 40% of his day by talking about himself or the relative's 'failure' to conform to a ridiculous regimen of timewasting, rather than help run the very technical department efficiently, has an input into the relative's appraisal routines. The Neurotypical wins very often over the less sociable but more conscientious. |
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Post by althea on Jan 4, 2022 14:27:28 GMT
It's not bragging to say you are above average intelligence, Rwth. It's something you were born with, not an achievement.
It annoys me when people think it is bragging to be of above average intelligence.
No one thinks it's bragging when you say you eyes are blue or brown. It is just something you were born with.
When I talked about intelligence to my mother, she said to never look down on anyone who is not bright, because society needs
road cleaners and bin men, just as much as engineers.
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Post by rwthless on Jan 23, 2022 10:48:51 GMT
I so agree. I know plenty of people whose gifts don't include much in the way of intelligence who are quick to know how and when to clear a table or who can be in the right place to help. Some people are brilliant at keeping to accurate time or can cut a straight slice of bread.
When I was working for a charity caring for healthy Deafblind adults, my boss said it didn't matter what you called them, Service users, Disabled People or whatever, it soon became horrible. We would refer to them by name whenever possible, and in specific terms relating to the activity most appropriate to the moment as normal as could be. Mealtimes would be en famille with staff eating too, and everyone cooking and serving. We were trying to help them live as normally as possible, even though their relationship with life omitted the two most informative senses.
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Post by althea on Jan 25, 2022 11:54:25 GMT
That must have been a difficult, but ultimately fulfilling job to do. People are people at the end of the day. Because I always used to make my own bread, I can cut a straight slice with the best.  |
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