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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2017 18:20:56 GMT
This is exactly what I am disgusted at: Welsh Am member Carl Sergeant has taken his own life today amid accusations of abuse against some women. He has not been charged and nothing has been proven. Yet his name has been in all the newspapers and on tv. A married man with two children, the fact he has taken his own life means nothing. Whether he was guilty or innocent, his name shouldn't have been released unless he was actually charged with an offence. THEY HAVEN'T NAMED THE ACCUSER. www.facebook.com/BBCWalesNews/?hc_ref=ARROP2M6JmmoKEKibrwsRPMthXaihMIb0juD5yw-j69Bm-34XgmV7GQFF-APhZ686xo&fref=nfShocking, isn't it. The hysterical bandwagon has claimed the life of one victim, and the reputations of all the rest As far as I am aware nobody has yet been charged, let alone convicted. Whatever happened to "Innocent until proved guilty"
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Post by hild1066 on Nov 8, 2017 12:02:03 GMT
This is certainly tragic, but it would be standard procedure in most workplaces to suspend a person where allegations of gross misconduct were made. They would be suspended until after the investigation had taken place. I cannot see how his Line Manager could have done it differently. Sad, that as a public figure he was named but if you are in public life and are then suspended from duty it is bound to come out in the press. Even people that are not public figures would sometimes feature in the press especially if a police investigation was taking place. I have often wondered if the police don't get paid for leaking this information, or at least someone in the police station is passing it on. I can't think of any other reason they would find out if the person is not a public figure but they do. You just have to look back at that terrible murder in Bristol where the police informed the press that they were questioning the landlord and what that poor man went through. We see it in police dramas where the press are hanging around asking questions etc. The statement in this case should simply have said that this man had been suspended during an internal investigation into allegations and everyone involved should have been bound by confidentiality rules at that point otherwise they would face disciplinary action too.
I am not aware of what he was accused but once he was suspended nothing more should have come out until the investigation was complete.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 12:18:09 GMT
This is certainly tragic, but it would be standard procedure in most workplaces to suspend a person where allegations of gross misconduct were made. They would be suspended until after the investigation had taken place. I cannot see how his Line Manager could have done it differently. Sad, that as a public figure he was named but if you are in public life and are then suspended from duty it is bound to come out in the press. Even people that are not public figures would sometimes feature in the press especially if a police investigation was taking place. I have often wondered if the police don't get paid for leaking this information, or at least someone in the police station is passing it on. I can't think of any other reason they would find out if the person is not a public figure but they do. You just have to look back at that terrible murder in Bristol where the police informed the press that they were questioning the landlord and what that poor man went through. We see it in police dramas where the press are hanging around asking questions etc. The statement in this case should simply have said that this man had been suspended during an internal investigation into allegations and everyone involved should have been bound by confidentiality rules at that point otherwise they would face disciplinary action too. I am not aware of what he was accused but once he was suspended nothing more should have come out until the investigation was complete. Sadly mud sticks, no smoke without fire and all that Nobody should be named unless convicted in these cases and any other similar cases Anybody "rich" can afford to seek court injunctions to preserve their anonymity, one law for them
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Post by hild1066 on Nov 8, 2017 16:32:32 GMT
Unfortunately we would have to remove the right to free speech in order to stop people making allegations, they are legally free to make them and the onus is on the publisher to check the credibility of the claim before publishing and the law is supposed to allow those that dispute the allegation right of redress, but since they took away the right to Legal Aid to do this, only the extremely rich can afford it, not even the 'just rich' can go there. However, even the police do not seem to prosecute journalists that obtain information via 'contacts' and so much in the media is fabricated under the heading of 'a friend of X told us' or 'someone close to X said'.
That said, many people are suspended from work pending investigations and are completely exonerated and in a work situation a person making a false allegation would be disciplined. When a person makes an allegation to the media it seems that nobody questions it and even the police do not seem to want to question some of these people to see if their allegation even has an credibility. Basic facts such as: were they even at the same conference, same hotel, travelling together etc. Timelines are very easy to establish if the person met you in a work situation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 17:28:52 GMT
Unfortunately we would have to remove the right to free speech in order to stop people making allegations, they are legally free to make them and the onus is on the publisher to check the credibility of the claim before publishing and the law is supposed to allow those that dispute the allegation right of redress, but since they took away the right to Legal Aid to do this, only the extremely rich can afford it, not even the 'just rich' can go there. However, even the police do not seem to prosecute journalists that obtain information via 'contacts' and so much in the media is fabricated under the heading of 'a friend of X told us' or 'someone close to X said'. That said, many people are suspended from work pending investigations and are completely exonerated and in a work situation a person making a false allegation would be disciplined. When a person makes an allegation to the media it seems that nobody questions it and even the police do not seem to want to question some of these people to see if their allegation even has an credibility. Basic facts such as: were they even at the same conference, same hotel, travelling together etc. Timelines are very easy to establish if the person met you in a work situation. Nobody is suggesting that people should be prevented from making allegations and complaints, they should only become public on conviction With regard to "However, even the police do not seem to prosecute journalists that obtain information via 'contacts' and so much in the media is fabricated under the heading of 'a friend of X told us' or 'someone close to X said'." I seem to remember prosecutions involving journalists and police officers where cash changed hands
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Post by rondetto on Nov 9, 2017 13:14:37 GMT
AND............now we have allegations regarding Kevin Spacey. They are even cutting him out of his latest film. Nothing has been proved, no criminal charges have been made and yet he is judged as guilty by the media. Don't know about anyone else but this has developed into a circus now.
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Post by hild1066 on Nov 9, 2017 16:09:07 GMT
Kevin Spacey has said publically that he has hidden his homosexuality for years and is now seeking treatment for previous sexualised behaviour. The police are currently investigating which is why nothing else is being reported. Even the media are wary about wading into an issue that the police are investigating. I wonder why he hid it for so long, especially in the field he works. I can't imagine it would have held him back, although it is a personal decision and perhaps he had family he did not want to discuss it with.
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Post by ARENA on Nov 9, 2017 16:34:53 GMT
Kevin Spacey has said publically that he has hidden his homosexuality for years and is now seeking treatment for previous sexualised behaviour. The police are currently investigating which is why nothing else is being reported. Even the media are wary about wading into an issue that the police are investigating. I wonder why he hid it for so long, especially in the field he works. I can't imagine it would have held him back, although it is a personal decision and perhaps he had family he did not want to discuss it with. Whatever it is, it is serious enough for the producers of his recently completed film, to delete every scene he is in and replace him with Christopher Plummer.
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Post by hild1066 on Nov 10, 2017 12:07:43 GMT
Apparently he is having treatment somewhere! I wonder if the treatment for these people might not be a pair of scissors to a certain part of their anatomy!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 18:15:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 18:16:59 GMT
Apparently he is having treatment somewhere! I wonder if the treatment for these people might not be a pair of scissors to a certain part of their anatomy! Such comments are unhelpful These are all still allegations, nothing has been proved and nobody convicted Similar allegations have been made here against innocent people that they are paedophiles resulting in serious assaults, and death
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Post by aubrey on Nov 10, 2017 20:04:00 GMT
Apparently he is having treatment somewhere! I wonder if the treatment for these people might not be a pair of scissors to a certain part of their anatomy! Such comments are unhelpful These are all still allegations, nothing has been proved and nobody convicted Similar allegations have been made here against innocent people that they are paedophiles resulting in serious assaults, and death There seems to be no doubt over Roy Moore (Republican candidate), though a lot of Republicans have been saying that what he did with teenage girls was just romantic, and if what he did with the 14 year old was more than that, well, Mary was 14, so that makes it ok. Some have been saying he shouldn't stand though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 20:58:58 GMT
Such comments are unhelpful These are all still allegations, nothing has been proved and nobody convicted Similar allegations have been made here against innocent people that they are paedophiles resulting in serious assaults, and death There seems to be no doubt over Roy Moore (Republican candidate), though a lot of Republicans have been saying that what he did with teenage girls was just romantic, and if what he did with the 14 year old was more than that, well, Mary was 14, so that makes it ok. Some have been saying he shouldn't stand though. I have no doubt that there are some true allegations, a so called American comedian is admitting masturbating in front of several women, but I do think we need to be careful and let the due processes proceed We have already had one suicide in Wales following allegations and publicity
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Post by aubrey on Nov 11, 2017 8:48:02 GMT
Roy Moore would not be allowed to be in a position of power over children, at whatever stage the case is at; but Republicans would still be happy to vote for him. He is the founder and president of the Foundation for Moral Law: We don't run from our values, we protect them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2017 8:56:16 GMT
Now Labour's Kerry McCarthy has released the letters she received from Kelvin Hopkins that caused his suspension from the Labour Party Friendly admiring correspondence, nothing more, from this shrinking violet of an MP. I hope her electorate remember what they are voting for next time
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