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Budget
Nov 25, 2017 10:42:54 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 25, 2017 10:42:54 GMT
Like there are no fascists in the Tory party.
Employers are increasingly trying to avoid their responsibilities to their workers. You lot never worry about that.
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Deleted
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Budget
Nov 25, 2017 11:05:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 11:05:57 GMT
Like there are no fascists in the Tory party. Employers are increasingly trying to avoid their responsibilities to their workers. You lot never worry about that. Workers have more than enough right these days, the days of irresponsible employers and ever demanding employees have long gone. Common sense has entered the workplace BTW Who is "you lot"? If you are referring to me I voted Labour in the last election, not I hasten to add as a pro Corbyn but more an anti May and the Tories
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Budget
Nov 25, 2017 13:14:34 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 25, 2017 13:14:34 GMT
The point is the increasing number of employers who pretend not to be: who insist that the people who work for them register as self-employed: so, no holiday or sick pay, no paye, no work pension, no guaranteed income/hours, etc. That is a deliberate relinquishing of an employer's responsibilities to their work force. Most low-paid jobs available seem to be like that these days: or short term (three or 6 months) and otherwise insecure. And wages have gone down over the past few years, for some reason. Sorry I mistook you for a Tory, though.
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Budget
Nov 25, 2017 14:31:25 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 14:31:25 GMT
The point is the increasing number of employers who pretend not to be: who insist that the people who work for them register as self-employed: so, no holiday or sick pay, no paye, no work pension, no guaranteed income/hours, etc. That is a deliberate relinquishing of an employer's responsibilities to their work force. Most low-paid jobs available seem to be like that these days: or short term (three or 6 months) and otherwise insecure. And wages have gone down over the past few years, for some reason. Sorry I mistook you for a Tory, though. An increasing number of employees seem to prefer to be self employed these days, mainly because they do not pay NI or be on PAYE. The Chancellor tried to remedy this in his first Budget but the Tory back benches resisted to protect "white van" man prompted by the Sun
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Budget
Nov 25, 2017 14:33:42 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 25, 2017 14:33:42 GMT
The point is the increasing number of employers who pretend not to be: who insist that the people who work for them register as self-employed: so, no holiday or sick pay, no paye, no work pension, no guaranteed income/hours, etc. That is a deliberate relinquishing of an employer's responsibilities to their work force. Most low-paid jobs available seem to be like that these days: or short term (three or 6 months) and otherwise insecure. And wages have gone down over the past few years, for some reason. Sorry I mistook you for a Tory, though. An increasing number of employees seem to prefer to be self employed these days, mainly because they do not pay NI or be on PAYE. The Chancellor tried to remedy this in his first Budget but the Tory back benches resisted to protect "white van" man prompted by the Sun They don't have much choice, when they're all that's available. It's not Uber's "employees" who are fighting the ruling that they do not have employees.
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Budget
Nov 27, 2017 12:19:34 GMT
Post by hild1066 on Nov 27, 2017 12:19:34 GMT
I bet in your day Brian full time employment meant 40 hrs a week. Many low paid jobs are 30 hrs a week now, so that people only work 6 hours a shift and don't need any breaks.ployers have cut back on sickness pay, bank holiday, weekend pay etc. Most people now have to use annual leave for a Bank Holiday. Some very large employers make people work as subcontractors or self-employed, this is not to save their 'employees' money but to save themselves money as they then don't have to pay Employers National Insurance Contributions, Employers Tax Contributions, they don't have to pay sickness or holiday pay either. T&Cs are definitely worse than they were, that is unless you are in the manager bracket where they have gone up considerably in some companies.
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Budget
Nov 27, 2017 15:43:01 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 15:43:01 GMT
I bet in your day Brian full time employment meant 40 hrs a week. Many low paid jobs are 30 hrs a week now, so that people only work 6 hours a shift and don't need any breaks.ployers have cut back on sickness pay, bank holiday, weekend pay etc. Most people now have to use annual leave for a Bank Holiday. Some very large employers make people work as subcontractors or self-employed, this is not to save their 'employees' money but to save themselves money as they then don't have to pay Employers National Insurance Contributions, Employers Tax Contributions, they don't have to pay sickness or holiday pay either. T&Cs are definitely worse than they were, that is unless you are in the manager bracket where they have gone up considerably in some companies. You would never believe that we currently have very low unemployment, and so many millions of jobs have been created. The old days of working conditions have long gone If you believe that the Labour alternative would change this then I'm afraid you are very naïve. Start imposing tough conditions on employers and unemployment would rocket, that assumes that any employer or person with funds to start businesses would stay here. The exodus would resemble a flock of lemmings. We have seen it all before And of course the tax take would plummet and we all know who gets hit the most when governments cut back on spending, the very poor, sick, and disabled that you care about
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Budget
Nov 27, 2017 16:16:06 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 27, 2017 16:16:06 GMT
I bet in your day Brian full time employment meant 40 hrs a week. Many low paid jobs are 30 hrs a week now, so that people only work 6 hours a shift and don't need any breaks.ployers have cut back on sickness pay, bank holiday, weekend pay etc. Most people now have to use annual leave for a Bank Holiday. Some very large employers make people work as subcontractors or self-employed, this is not to save their 'employees' money but to save themselves money as they then don't have to pay Employers National Insurance Contributions, Employers Tax Contributions, they don't have to pay sickness or holiday pay either. T&Cs are definitely worse than they were, that is unless you are in the manager bracket where they have gone up considerably in some companies. You would never believe that we currently have very low unemployment, and so many millions of jobs have been created. The old days of working conditions have long gone If you believe that the Labour alternative would change this then I'm afraid you are very naïve. Start imposing tough conditions on employers and unemployment would rocket, that assumes that any employer or person with funds to start businesses would stay here. The exodus would resemble a flock of lemmings. We have seen it all before And of course the tax take would plummet and we all know who gets hit the most when governments cut back on spending, the very poor, sick, and disabled that you care about Self-employed zero hours jobs are not jobs, they are just people off the Unemployment register. There are no employers involved (Uber have gone to court to try and prove that). Actually employing someone, providing sick and holiday pay, paying into a pension and NI, are not "Stringent conditions." There was a time when any reduction from a 14 hour day was said to be crippling; when miners had to pay for their own equipment and did not get paid until they had walked and crawled a mile underground to get to the coal face: exactly the same was said then: the jobs would all go overseas. Women in Bangladesh are paid a fraction of what people are paid here, working long hours in unsafe buildings: should we have to match that? Timed toilet breaks, impossible targets and workers falling asleep on feet: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse Alan Selby went undercover at the firm's Tilbury warehouse in Essex where ambulances are regularly called and where workers face the sack if they fail to pack at least two items per minute
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Budget
Nov 27, 2017 17:28:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 17:28:12 GMT
You would never believe that we currently have very low unemployment, and so many millions of jobs have been created. The old days of working conditions have long gone If you believe that the Labour alternative would change this then I'm afraid you are very naïve. Start imposing tough conditions on employers and unemployment would rocket, that assumes that any employer or person with funds to start businesses would stay here. The exodus would resemble a flock of lemmings. We have seen it all before And of course the tax take would plummet and we all know who gets hit the most when governments cut back on spending, the very poor, sick, and disabled that you care about Self-employed zero hours jobs are not jobs, they are just people off the Unemployment register. There are no employers involved (Uber have gone to court to try and prove that). Actually employing someone, providing sick and holiday pay, paying into a pension and NI, are not "Stringent conditions." There was a time when any reduction from a 14 hour day was said to be crippling; when miners had to pay for their own equipment and did not get paid until they had walked and crawled a mile underground to get to the coal face: exactly the same was said then: the jobs would all go overseas. Women in Bangladesh are paid a fraction of what people are paid here, working long hours in unsafe buildings: should we have to match that? Timed toilet breaks, impossible targets and workers falling asleep on feet: Brutal life working in Amazon warehouse Alan Selby went undercover at the firm's Tilbury warehouse in Essex where ambulances are regularly called and where workers face the sack if they fail to pack at least two items per minuteDo you not wonder why they queue up to work at Amazon? I'm afraid I do not believe the Corbyn propaganda. If employment was anything like as bad as you describe there would be a revolution, and also remember that Blair's Labour supported or introduced the new ways of working
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Budget
Nov 27, 2017 17:53:32 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 27, 2017 17:53:32 GMT
Because there's nothing else? Because, if they did not apply for and take jobs like that they would be sanctioned and lose all income for anything up to 6 months? You seem to think there is much of a choice. And as for the Corbyn propaganda; have you not seen anything about the Uber court case, in which Uber keep saying they have no employees, while at the same time saying that any restriction on their business model would put thousands out of work? This - the "self-employed", while being expected to be available for work at all times, is a huge sector these days, maybe 5 million people. It's not real employment: hardly anyone working in that way would not take up a real job - with sick and holiday pay, etc - if given the chance - the attempts to make them into real jobs are not brought forward by the employers, but the staff. Gig Economy
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Budget
Nov 27, 2017 21:11:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 21:11:29 GMT
Because there's nothing else? Because, if they did not apply for and take jobs like that they would be sanctioned and lose all income for anything up to 6 months? You seem to think there is much of a choice. And as for the Corbyn propaganda; have you not seen anything about the Uber court case, in which Uber keep saying they have no employees, while at the same time saying that any restriction on their business model would put thousands out of work? This - the "self-employed", while being expected to be available for work at all times, is a huge sector these days, maybe 5 million people. It's not real employment: hardly anyone working in that way would not take up a real job - with sick and holiday pay, etc - if given the chance - the attempts to make them into real jobs are not brought forward by the employers, but the staff. Gig EconomyAs I have already said, the old ways of working have gone for good, trade unions killed that off The days when you left school and hoped to get a job for life is a distant memory, and anyway if you now present a CV and job application which says that you have been in your present job for more than two years you can forget it. The employer will wonder what is wrong with you Many millions of jobs have been created under the Tories, and there is plenty of work for those who are genuinely looking
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Budget
Nov 28, 2017 17:46:05 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 28, 2017 17:46:05 GMT
Because there's nothing else? Because, if they did not apply for and take jobs like that they would be sanctioned and lose all income for anything up to 6 months? You seem to think there is much of a choice. And as for the Corbyn propaganda; have you not seen anything about the Uber court case, in which Uber keep saying they have no employees, while at the same time saying that any restriction on their business model would put thousands out of work? This - the "self-employed", while being expected to be available for work at all times, is a huge sector these days, maybe 5 million people. It's not real employment: hardly anyone working in that way would not take up a real job - with sick and holiday pay, etc - if given the chance - the attempts to make them into real jobs are not brought forward by the employers, but the staff. Gig EconomyAs I have already said, the old ways of working have gone for good, trade unions killed that off The days when you left school and hoped to get a job for life is a distant memory, and anyway if you now present a CV and job application which says that you have been in your present job for more than two years you can forget it. The employer will wonder what is wrong with you Many millions of jobs have been created under the Tories, and there is plenty of work for those who are genuinely looking No, the old way of working was deliberately killed off by the Tory party, as part of a policy designed to reduce Trade Union power and to lower wages and other employment costs. The jobs created under the Tories are not real jobs: they are part time, insecure and low paid: just the way Tories and their backers like it. Do you know what was said in the 30s, and the 80s? - "there is plenty of work for those who are genuinely looking." That is always the right-wing reaction to unemployment. What happens is that the Tories get in power - as they did in the 80s, and in 2010, introduce policies calculated to increase unemployment: and then they blame the unemployed for it. Every bloody time.
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Budget
Nov 28, 2017 21:10:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 21:10:30 GMT
As I have already said, the old ways of working have gone for good, trade unions killed that off The days when you left school and hoped to get a job for life is a distant memory, and anyway if you now present a CV and job application which says that you have been in your present job for more than two years you can forget it. The employer will wonder what is wrong with you Many millions of jobs have been created under the Tories, and there is plenty of work for those who are genuinely looking No, the old way of working was deliberately killed off by the Tory party, as part of a policy designed to reduce Trade Union power and to lower wages and other employment costs. The jobs created under the Tories are not real jobs: they are part time, insecure and low paid: just the way Tories and their backers like it. Do you know what was said in the 30s, and the 80s? - "there is plenty of work for those who are genuinely looking." That is always the right-wing reaction to unemployment. What happens is that the Tories get in power - as they did in the 80s, and in 2010, introduce policies calculated to increase unemployment: and then they blame the unemployed for it. Every bloody time. Strange that so many jobs were created under the Tories when they "introduced policies calculated to increase unemployment", though admittedly unemployment increased initially after 79 but that was simply getting rid of the dead wood strangling employers following the disastrous Labour government. Who could forget the winter of discontent, typical Labour mismanagement You can't seem to grasp that business and industry have moved on, the old ways of jobs for life have gone for good
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Budget
Nov 30, 2017 9:50:35 GMT
Post by aubrey on Nov 30, 2017 9:50:35 GMT
Who could forget 3,000,000 unemployed in the 80s (apart from those Troeis who try to blame Labour, like).
The jobs that have gone were secure and relatively well paid. The jobs that replaced them are low-paid and insecure, mostly not really jobs at all. Just saying that this is how work is these days ignores the fact that it was done by design, to create a cheap and easily controlled workforce: you can't strike to improve working conditions when you have no employer.
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