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Post by aubrey on Nov 1, 2017 9:01:51 GMT
You imagine that people - women especially - have not had to put up with gropes and comments - and more - for years? Because as soon as they said anything about it they'd be believed and the groper would be sacked?That's bizarre.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 12:29:34 GMT
You imagine that people - women especially - have not had to put up with gropes and comments - and more - for years? Because as soon as they said anything about it they'd be believed and the groper would be sacked?That's bizarre. Not "bizarre" at all, I am talking about the situation that exists today - not years ago Note the quote from a senior Tory MP about the allegations swirling around Damian Green "But the Broxtowe MP claimed outside of politics, allegations of impropriety resulting in an investigation would lead to an employee's suspension." news.sky.com/story/senior-tory-suggests-green-should-stand-down-amid-harassment-claims-11108233This is the how the current employment legislation works
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Post by hild1066 on Nov 1, 2017 12:31:04 GMT
Women and men do put up with it, because the person they are going to complain about is usually the person in power, regardless of HR. There was a senior man in a company I worked for, now retired and nobody wanted to sit next to him at any staff meal or do. In the workplace he mostly made lude comments (I could handle it, even though I shouldn't have needed to)but once he had a drink he was like an octopus, coping a feel whenever he could, trailing hands up legs until they were pushed away, squeezing thighs, sometime he would lock an arm around your shoulder (apparently friendly) and let the hand droop down towards your breast, ever so lightly just touching them. Bearing in mind that this is in front of other people, including other management staff, he generally got away with it until people moved, whenever it was convenient to get away. We used to ask the men at work to sit next to him, because nobody did or said anything about it. Comment from HR was "Don't sit next to him then!", because they just weren't going to go there such was his seniority. He knew what he was doing but the onus was on us to get out of the way. If any woman said anything or pushed him off forcefully he would usually say things like "Who's the frosty faced bitch tonight then" and laugh. This is a power thing and even today it is happening.
There are not more men doing it than there were before there are just more people bringing it out in the open. Forcing the media to take note will mean that HR Departments must take note, it will mean that men and women in these situations feel they have more power to do something. Being able to work as an MP or a journalist does not turn you into someone that can automatically cope in these situations and for some people it has made them change their careers, lives and affected them long term as it always did. This is not a bandwagon people are getting on this is a floodgate opening. Thank God!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 15:46:12 GMT
Women and men do put up with it, because the person they are going to complain about is usually the person in power, regardless of HR. There was a senior man in a company I worked for, now retired and nobody wanted to sit next to him at any staff meal or do. In the workplace he mostly made lude comments (I could handle it, even though I shouldn't have needed to)but once he had a drink he was like an octopus, coping a feel whenever he could, trailing hands up legs until they were pushed away, squeezing thighs, sometime he would lock an arm around your shoulder (apparently friendly) and let the hand droop down towards your breast, ever so lightly just touching them. Bearing in mind that this is in front of other people, including other management staff, he generally got away with it until people moved, whenever it was convenient to get away. We used to ask the men at work to sit next to him, because nobody did or said anything about it. Comment from HR was "Don't sit next to him then!", because they just weren't going to go there such was his seniority. He knew what he was doing but the onus was on us to get out of the way. If any woman said anything or pushed him off forcefully he would usually say things like "Who's the frosty faced bitch tonight then" and laugh. This is a power thing and even today it is happening. There are not more men doing it than there were before there are just more people bringing it out in the open. Forcing the media to take note will mean that HR Departments must take note, it will mean that men and women in these situations feel they have more power to do something. Being able to work as an MP or a journalist does not turn you into someone that can automatically cope in these situations and for some people it has made them change their careers, lives and affected them long term as it always did. This is not a bandwagon people are getting on this is a floodgate opening. Thank God! The trouble is that in any "flood" the innocent get swept away
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Post by aubrey on Nov 1, 2017 18:05:10 GMT
I spend most of my working time surrounded by women, and I've never had the fear that something I say or do might be taken wrongly.
The nearest has been me saying how much I liked exploitation films, and people I meant porn, or something that involved children or (they're really more or less what used to be called B Movies, or Drive-in Movies - cheap horror films, or sex films, or sex horror films, or adventure films, or thrillers, stuff like that).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 20:21:38 GMT
I spend most of my working time surrounded by women, and I've never had the fear that something I say or do might be taken wrongly. The nearest has been me saying how much I liked exploitation films, and people I meant porn, or something that involved children or (they're really more or less what used to be called B Movies, or Drive-in Movies - cheap horror films, or sex films, or sex horror films, or adventure films, or thrillers, stuff like that). "I spend most of my working time surrounded by women, and I've never had the fear that something I say or do might be taken wrongly." Me too, and I have to say most of the "banter" came from them
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Post by aubrey on Nov 1, 2017 20:44:59 GMT
I don't know banter; we just chat. Mostly (today) about Argentinian films.
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Post by hild1066 on Nov 2, 2017 12:44:39 GMT
That's because you guys weren't abusing your positions and/or weren't sexually threatening anyone. The men that do are absolutely the minority. As it was pointed out today 14,000 people work in or around Westminster, 10 or 12 people behaving like this is a tiny fraction. However the impact one person can have on a workforce cannot be underestimated. What we need to keep reminding everyone is that it is and was a minority of men/women that behave like this. It is not normal behaviour, it was never culturally or socially acceptable and the vast majority of us never did it. I mean how many men do you actually know that would think it was fine to feel between a women's legs or fondle her breasts on a crowded tube train - not many, if any at all. So the perspective has to be kept at reasonable levels. Most people do not behave like this and those that do should be made to stop.
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Post by rondetto on Nov 2, 2017 13:43:30 GMT
Yes agree with you, I am getting fed up now of all this media hype and people coming forward some 30 years later and alleging a certain celebrity has abused them in some way or another.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 15:37:48 GMT
Yes agree with you, I am getting fed up now of all this media hype and people coming forward some 30 years later and alleging a certain celebrity has abused them in some way or another. I agree, it has become a bandwagon with all sorts of motives and reasons for jumping on
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Post by rondetto on Nov 2, 2017 18:17:51 GMT
Any more from now on in the daily newspapers and they will be thrown in the bin. It wouldn't be so bad if the media didn't print the names of the accused. maybe some are guilty but there others that are perfectly innocent. They almost wrecked Cliff Richard's life.
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Post by aubrey on Nov 5, 2017 11:54:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2017 12:04:59 GMT
Now some minor journalist has complained that Michael Fallon tried to kiss her. She was so shocked she had to retire to her room to recover This is one of the hard nosed crowd who will get their foot in your door, demanding to know how you feel after you had suffered a terrible trauma Pleeeeeeeeeeeez
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Post by rondetto on Nov 5, 2017 13:33:01 GMT
I would certainly have respected Maureen O'Hara for her stance on those days.
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Post by rondetto on Nov 7, 2017 17:40:17 GMT
This is exactly what I am disgusted at: Welsh Am member Carl Sergeant has taken his own life today amid accusations of abuse against some women. He has not been charged and nothing has been proven. Yet his name has been in all the newspapers and on tv. A married man with two children, the fact he has taken his own life means nothing. Whether he was guilty or innocent, his name shouldn't have been released unless he was actually charged with an offence. THEY HAVEN'T NAMED THE ACCUSER. www.facebook.com/BBCWalesNews/?hc_ref=ARROP2M6JmmoKEKibrwsRPMthXaihMIb0juD5yw-j69Bm-34XgmV7GQFF-APhZ686xo&fref=nf
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