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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 13:07:45 GMT
"Sir Edward Heath 'would have been questioned' over abuse claims" www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41503143Have the Wiltshire police nothing better to do than raise these allegations made against a man who is now dead and cannot defend himself
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 11:54:41 GMT
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Post by rondetto on Oct 7, 2017 12:33:04 GMT
The terrible thing is that they name people. Look what happened to Sir Cliff Richard, naming him when there was no actual proof. He went through hell and says it has affected his health and his career. They should not have named Heath in my opinion. Only when charged they should name them.
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Post by ARENA on Oct 7, 2017 12:40:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 14:17:36 GMT
The procedures and systems are wrong in these sexual cases. The accused should not be named unless convicted in all cases, in rape cases the question of is the complaint just one of regret, and historical cases only if evidence or witnesses are presented should these cases proceed Too many cases rely on group evidence usually provided following a police fishing expedition, and drink. Rape cases seem to veer to much to the word of the complainant. I know that womens groups would argue that the current system encourages to come forward but I would argue that successful prosecutions would encourage them more and not those which do not appear that justice had been done The adversarial court system does not help, a barrister shouting and attempting to intimidate witnesses does not encourage anyone to come forward
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Post by aubrey on Oct 7, 2017 16:17:32 GMT
The procedures and systems are wrong in these sexual cases. The accused should not be named unless convicted in all cases, in rape cases the question of is the complaint just one of regret, and historical cases only if evidence or witnesses are presented should these cases proceed Too many cases rely on group evidence usually provided following a police fishing expedition, and drink. Rape cases seem to veer to much to the word of the complainant. I know that womens groups would argue that the current system encourages to come forward but I would argue that successful prosecutions would encourage them more and not those which do not appear that justice had been done The adversarial court system does not help, a barrister shouting and attempting to intimidate witnesses does not encourage anyone to come forward But only 5.7% of reported rape cases end in a conviction, and 90% aren't reported at all. With statistics like that you'd have to be bloody determined if all it was was that you decided the next morning that it wasn't a good idea.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 17:41:24 GMT
The procedures and systems are wrong in these sexual cases. The accused should not be named unless convicted in all cases, in rape cases the question of is the complaint just one of regret, and historical cases only if evidence or witnesses are presented should these cases proceed Too many cases rely on group evidence usually provided following a police fishing expedition, and drink. Rape cases seem to veer to much to the word of the complainant. I know that womens groups would argue that the current system encourages to come forward but I would argue that successful prosecutions would encourage them more and not those which do not appear that justice had been done The adversarial court system does not help, a barrister shouting and attempting to intimidate witnesses does not encourage anyone to come forward But only 5.7% of reported rape cases end in a conviction, and 90% aren't reported at all. With statistics like that you'd have to be bloody determined if all it was was that you decided the next morning that it wasn't a good idea. Is it any wonder that only 5.7% end in conviction, look at the list of those accused who were acquitted in Arena's link. If there are false accusations being made I am glad that they are not proved
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Post by aubrey on Oct 7, 2017 18:54:54 GMT
You said yourself that the whole process of reporting a rape is traumatic, so why would women do that just for regret? Regretting a sexual encounter and carrying on is a hell of a lot easier than both regretting it and reporting it as rape. Just because someone is acquitted doesn't mean there was no rape, just that there wasn't enough evidence to prove it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 7:58:27 GMT
You said yourself that the whole process of reporting a rape is traumatic, so why would women do that just for regret? Regretting a sexual encounter and carrying on is a hell of a lot easier than both regretting it and reporting it as rape. Just because someone is acquitted doesn't mean there was no rape, just that there wasn't enough evidence to prove it. And in some cases a conviction doesn't mean that it happened, I'm thinking of the recent case of a footballer especially Why report it because of change of mind, anger and regret and mistakenly believing that it is an easy process. The belief is now that if a woman says "No" during the event but the man continues, that is considered as rape. So she can change her mind halfway through but can the man stop?
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Post by aubrey on Oct 8, 2017 8:06:14 GMT
Yes.
And I don't think anyone thinks it is an easy process.
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Post by ARENA on Oct 8, 2017 9:33:18 GMT
Yes. And I don't think anyone thinks it is an easy process. Once the accused is dead, proving anything is nigh impossible. It is always a mistake to listen to one sides evidence.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 9:37:59 GMT
Yes. And I don't think anyone thinks it is an easy process. Once the accused is dead, proving anything is nigh impossible. It is always a mistake to listen to one sides evidence. And if the "accused" is dead and there is a whiff of money the compensation gravy train soon swings into action
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Post by norty on Oct 8, 2017 11:28:43 GMT
Several points I'd like to make:-
. The justice system needs to be looked at in relation to rape cases. Both parties should should have their names used only in court until completion of the case. Only then can it be reported in full using both parties names in the press.
. The system of collecting evidence is flawed, the police are better than they used to be, but not good enough. This accounts for the lack of evidence in court leading to a lack of conviction. Just because the physical evidence is no longer there doesn't mean it hasn't happened. More needs to be done looking at previous relationships etc.
. Women generally don't shout rape unless they have. Yes there is always an exception, but I think the vast majority of rape claims are genuine.
. No means no. It doesn't mean no, oh go on then. Men are quite capable of pulling out, quite capable of detecting a shift in mood, quite capable of reading a situation and taking advantage.
Women are not blameless, but the burden of proof is huge and even with plenty of it jury's often don't convict because they somehow blame the woman for getting herself into a situation.
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Post by starlilolill on Oct 8, 2017 11:55:51 GMT
I would agree that women are not blameless in many cases. Each case has to be looked at and treated as a 'one off' if you like. Rape must be an horrific experience and violent rape even more so. The cases where young (ish) women have gone back to, say, a footballers room should know they are not going there for a game of chess. If they regret it next day then so be it but to scream rape - I don't think so!
In the case of Heath, he is dead and, to my mind should be left in peace. If there is a case(s) to answer how could they possibly prove it?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 14:10:35 GMT
The Wiltshire police chief seems very determined, and defensive. Is there anyway he can be held to account? Reminds me of another police chief, of Manchester (somebody Anderton or Anderson) who addressed his troops announcing that he wanted to catch all gay men and his men could easily locate them. They would all be found jogging along the roadside Where do they find these people?
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